Gotnext Women's Basketball Boards

M6Zara · Joined: 31 Jul 2004 Posts: 51 Location: Maryland

France Fully Frustrated By U.S.
It took a quarter to settle down and get things together, but after that the USA Women's Senior National Team cashed in on a 25-7 second quarter and rolled to an eventual 68-38 victory in Spain. Leading the balanced attack was 2002 World Championship MVP Lisa Leslie with 12 points, while Sue Bird shot a near-perfect 4-of-5 for 11 points. More to come soon!

http://www.usabasketball.com/seniorwomen/index.html

BBallFan729 · Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 461 Location: Manchester, CT

Thanks for the link.

How flippin' long does it take to get a box score up? It's been saying "more to come soon" for the past 85 minutes. Are turtles running the website?

aml10 · Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 323 Location: iowa

ok, so i wonder if diana really had 5 fouls?
i think that's what i'm interpreting from the box score.

i also wonder how many fouls someone can have in international play before they foul out. [must do some research!]

that seems like a lot. were the WNBA refs doing that game?! :lol:

BBallFan729 · Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 461 Location: Manchester, CT

DT really had five fouls (which is the limit in international play), yet no one else on the U.S. team had more than 2. I guess the international refs are treating her as a rookie too.

Anywho, here is the link:

http://www.usabasketball.com/seniorwomen/2004/04_wnt_exh15-box.html

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

Quote: I guess the international refs are treating her as a rookie too.

You know, since you didn't see the game, how do you know this to be true? Maybe she actually committed fouls. Or maybe she does not have enough senior level international experience to know how not to get away without being called for fouls. Or maybe she was guarding Melain or some of the other good French players.

But to claim that she is being treated as a rookie by the refs without seeing the game is a stretch (BBall, didn't you make the similar statements about Diana's turnovers in the preseason game...how teammates weren't ready for passes and that is why she had so many turnovers...when you didn't see that game either...)

BBallFan729 · Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 461 Location: Manchester, CT

No, I didn't see the game, I'm really not that fortunate. I apologize for wondering why DT had 5 fouls, and why no one else had more than 2. Maybe she does lack the experience, and maybe she did truly foul five times, but I just found it odd...that's all.

I'm sorry for making unfounded observations. I'll try to refrain from doing so :D .

aml10 · Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 323 Location: iowa

i had some of those thoughts too at first.. i mean, there was a french player with 4 fouls but no one on the US team was even close to 5!!

so i thought maybe dee was guarding one of the top french players while she was in...? maybe the french were taking it at taurasi coz of her 'injury'? maybe she just wasnt in the game defensively today. who knows...

just wish i could have watched the darn game :(
and the game tomorrow too! double :( :(

these is kinda related... to the national team anyway.
Quote: Looking for Dream Team? Watch US Women's Hoops http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5641432/
Dream Team? Try Dream Divas http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5642027/

mb · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject:

Cam,

EASE UP DUDE!

If Caune had made the comment Quote: I guess the international refs are treating her as a rookie too. , you'd have let it slide as a humerous/ironic observation.

Instead you assume it is a Taurasi fanatic thinking Diana was treated unfairly. The post gives no indication of such an attitude. In fact, the comment was proceeded by an admission that she did indeed commit the fouls Quote: DT really had five fouls (which is the limit in international play)... .

The fact that Taurasi's (and UConn's) recent success was much greater than that of Beard's (and Dukes') does not justify your condescending and unwarranted attacks.

You have an amazing amount of knowledge regarding the women's game.
Perhaps if you shared your knowledge of college, professional, and international basketball in a more subtle manner; it would be more readily received.

Many posters here wish to expand their basketball knowledge and enhance their joy of the game. Your insights could prove beneficial to them, and facilitate their enjoyment of the game.

Unfortunately, your know-it-all and condescending attitude has worn thin on even some of the knowledgable and regular posters. It has kept others from moving from lurking to posting.

They say that if one can't take the heat, they should stay out of the kitchen. Of course most kitchens don't have a broiler which has been left on.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

MB, newsflash...an unwarranted assumption is an unwarranted assumption.

What does Beard have to do with any of this? YOU are the one who really needs to be put in check. The only person reading into things is YOU! If you cannot see the lack of foundation for the initial comment, then I cannot help your lack of logical reasoning.

I have kept others from posting? Didn't know I had that kind of power. But if people don't have the "Co-Jones" to post comments, then I am certainly not the cause of it...their own lack of self-esteem or self-confidence, however, might be a contributing factor.

To quote Keegan...Build a bridge and GET OVER IT.

DTFAN · Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Posts: 104 Location: Newington CT

Okay..........I'm going to try to find my co-jones to post this.........I am one of those lurkers........actually I have posted a few things here and there ......But to be perfectly honest ,I sometimes get the impression that Cam has little patience for us UCONN turned Merc. fans. Being quick to always point out that Dee isn't the only one on the team. I can understand that he's been a Merc fan forever and that maybe he's alittle tired of all the "fanfare" Dees been getting. We do realize that there are other players on this team, players that we are getting to know and love.
Does it really matter how wegot here? We're here now. How else do you expect your fan base to grow? UCONN/DEE has a HUGE fan base........what are we supposed to do forget about her? Let us have our moments of praising her....as time goes on and we follow your team we will be posting about someone else on the Merc roster. If there is one thing that DEE has instilled in her fans...............It's TEAMWORK!!!
So, lets all play nice and enjoy each others posts.

emibaby · Joined: 09 Jun 2004 Posts: 231 Location: Thomasville, AL

I can honestly say, fellas, that Diana brought me here (to the team)...but the team AND ITS FANS are keeping me here.

Let's not squabble, okay? I don't wanna see my men arguing and stuff. It makes me sad. :cry:

Sun Devil Mercury Fan · Joined: 13 Jul 2002 Posts: 154 Location: Phoenix, Arizona

OK, I'll jump in...

Personally, I'm thrilled to have the new folks on the board.

I have loved the Mercury from day one, and I think it's wonderful to have a player on the team who has brought so many new faces to this board, and into the Mercury fold. When was the last time we had this kind of excitement? 1998??

Yes, yes, yes... maybe some of them never saw Cheryl Miller play or don't know much about the HISTORY of women's basketball, but so what? They have to start somewhere, right?! Getting to know and appreciate the game now can only help the team and the league in the future.

In general, I really think that we should enjoy the new Mercury fans. I think BBallfan, Emi, DTFan and all (well...most...) of the others have been a nice addition! (Please don't be offended if I didnt' mention your name.)

Besides, BBallfan is soon to be a SUN DEVIL! :twisted:

Now, everyone one play nicely or I'll tell Patsy and Eddy!!!!!!

xoxoxoxoxoxo

SDMF

ps... did anyone else see Kristi Harrower get poked in the eye in the Diamond Classic today? OUCH!

BBallFan729 · Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 461 Location: Manchester, CT

Quote: Besides, BBallfan is soon to be a SUN DEVIL!

:D

Sun Devils Rock!! (As do Huskies, by the way)

Everyone,

I messed up in making an "unwarranted assumption" about DT's fouls, and cam had every right to call me out on it. I'm cool with it, so you all should be too. I'll let ya know when cam really makes me upset :wink:

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

Quote: I messed up in making an "unwarranted assumption" about DT's fouls, and cam had every right to call me out on it. I'm cool with it, so you all should be too. I'll let ya know when cam really makes me upset

That is also the point MB is missing. BBall and I communicate on this board and others. And BBall will call me out on something when it is warranted as well.

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

I watched the Australia vs. Greece game, and the refs barely called anything at all. If they were anything like the ones in Spain, then it'd be a good question to ask as to why DT got called so much.

But, hey, it's quite possible she committed that many. Maybe just a little anxious to get her Olympics on?

hellcat · Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 12:15 am Post subject:

I want to know why this Chinese team keeps beating up my girl KH! :x

Sun Devil Mercury Fan · Joined: 13 Jul 2002 Posts: 154 Location: Phoenix, Arizona

hellcat wrote: I want to know why this Chinese team keeps beating up my girl KH! :x

Me too, Hellcat! That was horrible... and while I'm sure in wasn't intentional, I really looked like Chen (is that who did it?) just stuck her finger right in Kristi's eye. I almost cried seeing her in so much pain. (OK, I did cry a little...)

Have you heard an update about KH? Is she OK?

SDMF

mb · Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2004 10:16 am Post subject:

Cam,

My statement was not in reference to this one instance...it addressed your general tone overall, especially when responding to out of state fans praising Diana.

Those of us that know you, and interact with you personally, realize that the arrogance and vanity are part of your character and your charm. On the boards, however, you come across as know-it-all and condescending. This despite the fact that you truly possess the knowledge to back your statements.

Sportsfan and carol1 have both e-mailed many new posters with a two-fold purpose: first, to politely request they refrain from "woofing", and second, to apologize for you berating them.

Yes, you do hold the power to keep people from posting. It is not something to be proud of, rather it is shameful. Some of us are actually embarrassed for/by you.

Many people have told me they refrain from posting soley due to you. Perhaps some do lack the "cojones", yet at least one I know of has "cojones" to match yours or mine, yet just can't be bothered. To paraphrase: "I want to post my thoughts on the games and players, stating some opinions. Opposing thoughts and opinions would be welcomed discussion. However, I don't have the time or desire to be told I am wrong for my opinions in a condescending manner."

A gotnext private message I received: Quote: right on mb on your comments about cam. it's true that some posters can speak their mind and others get trashed when they do.

If the comment in question (see below) had been posted by caune or sportfan, it is doubtful they would have been berated: Quote: I guess the international refs are treating her as a rookie too.

As a friend, I hope I can tell you that caune, sportsfan, carol1, and others have discussed the topic (your demeanor on the board) prior to this thread. While acknowledging your basketball insight, the conscensus was that you can be overbearing on the board at times.

You may have enticed BBallfan to back down, yet not everybody will simply roll over. Make no mistake about my having the "cojones" to post these comments, which were absolutely warranted.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

MB, I find it so interesting that you can discuss whom I am going to respond to, without being inside my mind.

I respond to comments when I have the time to. There is no rhyme or reason, but rather when my schedule allows me to. And yes, I have called Caune out before...and you (on this board and others)...and both of you have called me out

As for people sending you private messages, if they don't even have the "co-jones" to address me, much less post on the board, how am I supposed to responsible for their self-esteem? Seriously...it is a message board. They have much bigger problems if they are intimidated by posting on a board!

BBallFan wrote:
Quote: I messed up in making an "unwarranted assumption" about DT's fouls, and cam had every right to call me out on it. I'm cool with it, so you all should be too.

(emphasis added). And I am sorry if you cannot figure out that it IS an unwarranted assumption when someone does not see a game to make the statment that BBall fan did...WHICH BBALLFAN ACKNOWLEDGED!!! Apparently, BBallFan is entitled to be fine with my response to BBallFan's post...but now, you wanted to be offended for BBallFan?

If you (and these alleged lurkers) cannot figure out that BBallFan had no problem with my posting the comment and that I was right to do so, then I cannot help you.

An unwarranted assumption is just that...if you don't want people to respond to your opinions, then don't post. It is a message board...if someone has something to say, people can say things in response. Certainly you had no problem attacking me. Should I call up and complain? Are you now the board moderator? Why don't you send out rules what can be posted, what cannot...and forbid anyone from responding to anyone's comments.

Again, you miss the freakin' point. BBallfan did not see the game, but posted an opinion. I questioned the basis for the opinion. If you cannot even do that, then why bother having a message board? Maybe if you would get off your high horse and bother to read the comment and the response, which was done politely. I said the comment was a "stretch" and offered other possible explanations. Nowhere did I refer to the comment as stupid or wrong...just pointing out the nature of the unwarranted assumption. And if you cannot see that, that is your problem, not mine.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

LOL, when I first saw the box score, and DT's 5 fouls, my first thought was, dam, she's getting it from those refs too :roll: My second thought was it will take her little time to figure out international refs if given playing time to do so, but my big fear is that Van will do his famous short rotation and leave some players languishing on the bench, like Diana, which would be no fun for us.

BBallFan729 · Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 461 Location: Manchester, CT

Quote: but my big fear is that Van will do his famous short rotation and leave some players languishing on the bench, like Diana, which would be no fun for us

That's my fear too, especially when Katie comes back. I have a feeling, however, if DT had not fouled out, she would have gotten more minutes. She had an okay statline: 6 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist, no turnovers.

It will take DT time to adjust to the officiating I'm sure. Hopefully, she stayed out of foul trouble today.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

It is a one game aberration, IMHO. Taurasi played 3 previous games against international teams, and she had 4 fouls total in 3 games.

In terms of fouls, Ruth Riley has the reputation of accumulating a number of fouls per minutes played (not saying it is true, but she does have the 'rep'). This could be why she only saw 9 minutes of action against France, despite a big lead.

Another thing to consider (an addition to my earliest comment in this thread about the explanation for fouls)...if Diana was beaten off the dribble (something that could have happened if she is still recovering from injury), she could have fouled, rather than having her usual defensive stance. Alternatively, Diana could have been picking up the defensive slack for other players who were "beaten" by the opposing French players.

The numbers themselves don't give much rhyme or reason or explanation for the French game...scroll down to the cumulative stats for the exhibition tours of the national team in the spring games:
http://www.usabasketball.com/seniorwomen/2004/04_wnt_stats.html

The only that is clear is that Lisa Leslie is not having a lot of fouls called against her, considering her status as the best center in the world and the fact that she is often the focus of other teams (double team her, to see if she throws an elbow and gets whistled for the offensive foul). This is good news for the U.S., as Leslie was in foul trouble in a number of games at the 2002 World Championships (most notably the semis against Australia).

BBallFan729 · Joined: 15 Apr 2004 Posts: 461 Location: Manchester, CT

It's funny that you mention Lisa Leslie not getting many fouls called on her, considering that she fouled out in today's game. The U.S. won 77-61 over Spain. Swin Cash was the leading scorer with 14.

http://www.feb.es/basketv/frontend/code/app/index_pti/0,1124,16117-101,00.html

Be Warned. The link is in Spanish...but if you scroll down, you can see how many points each person had. DT had 7 points, and Sue 5. They outscored the Staley/Johson duo 12-0.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

She has 5 fouls today, as opposed to only 11 fouls in the 7 spring games. More credence to the theory that there is no rhyme and reason regarding the refs, fouls called, and the issue of Diana's rookie status.