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gia · Guest

Looks like Sharp might stay with Grubin as mb pointed out in another thread. Not sure why she can't just stay with her by putting her in the 2 guard spot with Veal at the 1. Grubin's confidence would be better served by letting her do what she does best......score.

Also, since they are expecting Orlando to throw the press/trap at them ("They do press and trap and push the ball up the floor, so making sure our guards are ready to play is really critical. ") it makes more sense to have your best ball handler/tallest point guard in to get the ball up the floor.

mb · Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 2:10 pm Post subject:

AMEN!

We want Veally!!!

Princess needs to score, as does Kayte, to compliment Gillom and Grubin.

Vladimir Taltos · Guest Joined: 15 Jun 2002 Posts: 72

This isn't on Orlando, but I was feeling vile this afternoon and thought I'd give dear Leslie some bad karma... :twisted:

http://www.phxsuns.net:8080/WebX?31@@1dcdedbc@7

VT

Ohio Gaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Salem, OH

Hmmm. Something is wrong with these lines.
PLAYER MIN FGM-A 3GM-A FTM-A OFF DEF TOT AST PF ST TO BS PTS
ADRAIN WILLIAMS..22 1-2 0-0 0-0 0 2 2 0 5 0 3 0 2
Kayte Christensen..12 0-1 0-1 0-0 1 2 3 1 2 1 0 1 0
GORDANA GRUBIN..38 8-14 2-4 5-7 0 3 3 4 4 2 4 0 23
ADRIANA MOISES...16 2-4 1-2 0-0 0 0 0 2 3 0 3 0 5
Kristen Veal...........10 0-1 0-1 0-0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0
Playing time allocation is not proportional to rebounds, assists, steals or blocked shots. I guess those statistics are not important, not to be rewarded with playing time? :? Oh, I see, turnovers are valued. :o
What's right? The 2 guard scored well. Got that right! :wink:

I see Kayte had another "shaky" start, only stole the ball once, blocked a shot, had 1 offensive board and 1 defensive board in her first 3 minutes. 8) She can get it going, off the bench, but more playing time would be appropriate, for her and for Kristen. :idea:

http://www.wnba.com/games/20020706/PHOORL/boxscore.html
http://scores.nba.com/games/20020706/PHOORL/PlayByPlayPrint.html

kharris · Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2002 8:09 pm Post subject:

It was my fortune to be able to attend tonight's game in Orlando. I must admit after the last two atrocious Mercury outings, I was simply hoping to see a good effort on the floor, and I was indeed treated to that. I agree with caune in a previous post that this should have been our game.

Although we were still outrebounded tonight, it wasn't as glaring as the past few games. Our defense was solid, and in fact, smothering at times. I didn't think Kayte was as spectacular in this game, but I felt like Veal's minutes in the first half were very positive ones. Wonder where she was for much of that second half? I suppose Bonfiglio's "hot" shooting gave her the nod. As peviously stated, I felt much better about the Mercury team that showed up tonight. Hopefully this will be a springboard to a new and improved attitude. Now if we had just gotten that darn "W"... :?

cbibat · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

Does anyone know for sure that Veal's knees are well enough for her to play more minutes?

gia · Guest

Ok, now I'm disgusted. :evil:

WHY didn't Veal see any playing time in the second half???? She played solid......ZERO turnovers, yet with Moises in foul trouble they opted to put Grubin back at PG and sit Veal the ENTIRE second half. The stats show only 2 assts for her but she made great passes inside and took much better care of the ball. I hope when they're watching that game tape that someone has the sense to realize that their PG is VEAL.

And Kayte was more effective playing 10 minutes than Williams was playing 22. The best team on the floor was Veal, Grubin, Harrison, Christensen, Gillom.

gia · Guest

Oh!.......did anyone catch the comment by the Orlando TV announcers (how boring are they?!) that it was rumored that Harrison was going to Orlando when the turmoil with Cooper was going on.

Vladimir Taltos · Guest Joined: 15 Jun 2002 Posts: 72

I still say given increased minutes, Tuvic would show up Gillom...so we're almost in agreement, Gia... :D I just have to get you to come around a little, tiny bit... :lol: :lol:

Point two, are you ready to concede that our coaching staff also needs a kick in the pants? A public beheading would be nice...

Ms. Sharp, any last words? mmm, mm, hmmphh...oh sorry, I forgot to remove the gag...ah, yes..go ahead..

"Why are you going to chop my head off?"

"Hmmm, because you wouldn't recognize a POINT GUARD if it bit you in your pattookus and, um, sitting on your keester too much?"

"What? Hmmphhh, mmmphhh. hmmph"

"Oh, sorry about that old girl. its time you know...OFF WITH HER HEAD!"

:twisted:

VT

Gaucho81 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 147 Location: Ventura, CA

Gia, I missed that comment. I also missed most of the first half of the audio. I tuned in late and then had difficulty with getting the feed. Why can't we get Mercury announcers for all games :evil: :!:

You are so right, about those two being boring. It seemed like every time we scored, they muttered it under their breath, openly showing their disappointment in the made basket. Jen was the only player they seemed to emphasize any liking for. Quite a contrast from our announcer (s) who seem to show much greater non-bias by showing enthusiasm for all the players on the floor.

Did anyone else catch the supposed 3-point attempt by Kayte? The Orlando announcers said that Gillom missed that 3-point attempt, not Christensen. Maybe the announcers had it wrong, maybe not. My guess is the announcers were correct and the missed shot shouldn't have been awarded to Kayte (she took all of two 3-pointer attempts in her senior season at UCSB).

Regarding Veal, I think it's not good news one way or the other:
1) She didn't play in the second have due to her knees.
2) Sharp, just didn't want to put her back in.

I am kind of hoping it's her knees still giving her some problems, because if it's because of (2) above, then that may last for the remainder of the season.

Of course, it appears that Sharp's substition pattern may be suspect. Note: She did make one change, which is moving in the right direction; she brought Kayte in off the bench first for post relief :D

I thought we played well, but just didn't take care of the ball towards the end. Of course, getting out rebounded again was very bad. I couldn't believe that Johnson was able to get her own missed free-throw at the end. That should never happen :evil:

I was also angry that we couldn't even get up a shot at the end of the first half. It sounded as if we weren't aware of the time on the clock and we just had had a time-out :!: :!: :!:

Okay, New York is up next.

Coach--
1) If Veal is healthy - Start her at PG
2) If Veal is healthy - Keep Grubin at SG
3) Give Kayte more minutes
4) If Kayte doesn't start - Sub her in soon after the tip
5) If we're not effectively hitting the boards - Sub in someone who will
6) We're are improving, really, so let's get a W in New York :shock: :D :lol: :!:

mb · Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2002 12:01 pm Post subject:

My first post today will be a copy of what I posted at AZCentral before reading the comments here. My next post will address some of the comments made here. My other post:

Trying to stay positive, I liked a couple things from the last game. Jen shooting her way out of a slump, and Grubin playing the SG.

How many times must I ask for Veal to get more minutes?

Reporter Jeff Metcalf's hints have not been subtle, as witnessed in before and after game comments in his write-ups:

"Christensen, the rookie who had her scoring (11) and rebounding (eight) highs in 15 minutes, probably will move ahead of Adrain Williams at power forward.

The other seemingly necessary move is to start Kristen Veal at the point, shift Gordana Grubin to shooting guard and put Susanna Bonfiglio on the bench. If not Veal, Adriana Moises could start at point, although like Grubin, she is better suited for off guard.

Moises is quicker than Veal but not as good a passer, something the Mercury are desperately lacking as evidenced by their 25-11 assist difference in an 86-61 loss to Miami."

He also pointed out that while both Veal and Moises had two assists, Moises had three turnovers and Veal no turnovers. Grubin had four assists and four turnovers. It might be noted that Bonfiglio also had 3 turnovers.

The color commentator was redundant in stating how much more effective Grubin was in an offensive minded mode, playing SG. He or Kevin Ray, I beleive, mentioned how Veal is able to get players into position and how smooth the offense runs under her guidance.

We saw how well she lead the team in LA. The Mercury lead was built and maintained while she was on the court in Orlando. Being taller she may have stopped some of those assists coming out of trapping Shannon Johnson.

We drafted Veal 13th to be a starter. She stablizes the offense and provides assists w/o turnovers. She is a taller defender.

For goodness sakes, give her more minutes!!!

Go Mercury!!!

mb · Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2002 12:13 pm Post subject:

Besides the obvious VT and Tuvic, anybody else in addition to me missing Maria Stepanova?

Yes Jen was shooting often, but why does Adrain Williams only have two attempts in 22 minutes???

Must agree with Gia, new starting line-up:

PG Veal (VEAL AT PG!)
SG Grubin (GRUBIN AT SG!)
SF Harrison
PF Gillom
C Christensen

It seems we're afraid to run any guard combination w/o Grubin. Therefore Moises should spell Veal, and Bonfiglio subs for Grubin; yet at alternating times.

Jay can rest Lisa for the (very) few minutes she should be off the court, Williams and Tuvic resting Gillom and Christensen.

Once again for the Merc coaches: VEAL at PG, GRUBIN at SG!!!

Ohio Gaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Salem, OH

Gaucho81 wrote:

"Did anyone else catch the supposed 3-point attempt by Kayte? The Orlando announcers said that Gillom missed that 3-point attempt, not Christensen. Maybe the announcers had it wrong, maybe not. My guess is the announcers were correct and the missed shot shouldn't have been awarded to Kayte (she took all of two 3-pointer attempts in her senior season at UCSB)."

I surely wondered about that! :? It clearly is out of character for our Kayte, whose range is best limited to 10 ft, and only gets better (>55% overall, college career wise) when she bounces (herself off defenders & the ball off the glass).

Coach Sharp should have a "ticker" with the playXplay on it. When she doesn't see a sufficency of PHO references for a few minutes, its time to put Kayte & Kristen in the game, to get things moving. There clearly were under-utilized minutes, when more should have been accomplished. We would have won that game with better substitution policy. I wonder which "directors" are limiting the "CEO" in choice of policy. The "shareholders" (fans) are getting restless.

Regards,
Bob
UCSB '61
(I have 20 on you? :lol: )

Ohio Gaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Salem, OH

Thanks. Your contributions are treasured. :)

Ohio Gaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Salem, OH

From AZ Republic (link below):
"Jennifer Gillom had a solid game (21 points, five rebounds, four assists, three steals), but starters Adrain Williams and backups Kayte Christensen and Slobodanka Tuvic were ineffective."

Hmmm. :? Ineffective? Or under-utilized? Kayte had 2 boards, an assist, a block & a steal in her first 3 minutes. She might have had some FGs, too, if an effective point guard were running the offense more of the time.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/mercury/0707mercurynb07.html

jeff metcalfe · Guest Joined: 22 Jun 2002 Posts: 41

I really don't think Christensen played that well vs. Orlando and I'm a big fan of her effort. That said, Williams and Tuvic weren't good either. So would Kayte have done better than those two simply out of effort if she had been given some of their combined 32 minutes? Maybe to probably. But all of them, including Gillom, were putting dos Santos on the line. You could make an argument that they should have gotten out of the high trap vs. Johnson sooner because that was hurting them late when they got the ball inside. But they were up by 8 by 6 minutes left in part thanks to that trap. Christensen can expect some minutes here because they want to run NY and tomorrow with the back-to-back vs. running Washington.

Gil · Guest Joined: 25 Jun 2002 Posts: 84

Thanks Jeff, for your continued insight and contributions! Keep up the good work...

mb · Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 10:37 am Post subject:

Jeff, great work as always. Can you give us some insight as to whether Veal's conditioning is limiting her minutes. Basically, I'd like to see a Jeff Metcalfe article in the Republic similar to Jeff Simon's article in the Tribune today.

Go Mercury!

P.S. Congrats on your leaderboard standing in Virtual GM. You obviously know your women's basketball.

gia · Guest

Hey mb, can you share what Jeff Simon had to say? :)

Ohio Gaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Salem, OH

This remote Mercury fan very much appreciates your insight & first hand evaluations. You're my first read, every morning.

Thanks,
Bob
UCSB '61

Ojr · Guest Joined: 25 Jun 2002 Posts: 2

In fact, Kayte can shoot the 3-point shot....she just doesn't do it much because she was needed down low in HS and at UCSB. In the California State High School All-Star game after her senior year, she shot 4/4 from 3-point range, was high point player and MVP.

mb · Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 12:57 pm Post subject:

The Trib has no website like the Republic has at AZCentral, however one can subscribe to an online version.

Since gia asked me with a smiley face and all, I made some efforts to get the article. Mercury fans get those subscriptions in...one can't beat getting coverage from both the Trib and the Republic.

Here's the article, e-mailed to me by the sports editor Slim Smith (thanks):

Mended Veal ready for bigger role
BY JEFF SIMON
TRIBUNE
The pain she felt toward the end of the 2001 WNBA season is gone.
The two surgical procedures Kristen Veal went through and the time she has missed on the court are worth it.
Now the Phoenix Mercury point guard can get back to playing pain-free basketball. It's a nice change for the 20-year-old Australian who spent last winter taking two and three times the recommended dosage of anti-inflammatory medication for her sore knees.
"All that was doing was covering up the injury,'' Veal said.
Surgery was performed first on her left knee and then her right. The procedures were done to relieve pressure the tendons around the knees were putting on the kneecaps. Ideally, Veal was supposed to be healthy enough to compete in April's training camp. Reality was less than ideal, as she didn't start practicing with the Mercury until the regular season had started in June and didn't play her first game until June 25 at Los Angeles.
"We were down by 20 at L.A. and it was still an absolute buzz,'' Veal said. "I was running on pure adrenaline.''
Now she is ready to get rid of the knee braces and anything else that reminds her of the surgeries.
"I'm stronger than I was before I had the operation,'' Veal said. "Right now my defense is appalling, but that's the last thing to come back after an injury.''
Since her return, Veal has played an average of 13 minutes in six games. She has averaged three points and two assists per game. Veal wants more playing time.
After a Mercury practice last week in Florida, Veal did an additional workout by herself. New Mercury coach Linda Sharp noticed.
"The team likes playing with Kristen Veal,'' Sharp said. "She is the truest point guard we have. She understands who the shooters are and she can get the ball to them. She gives us more stability.''
With Veal's return, Sharp has the option of moving Adriana Moises or Gordana Grubin to the shooting guard position and that's where both may be more comfortable. Her problem doing that is neither Veal nor Grubin is the quickest guard in the WNBA.
"I'm not in basketball shape,'' Veal said. "Each surgery was meant to take three months and the last one was in February. We've been very conservative over the last month. I'm in good enough shape for the minutes I'm playing.''
As a rookie last season Veal started 14 of her 29 games and averaged four points and 4.3 assists per contest. Her assist total was fifth best in the WNBA.
Any help Veal can give the struggling Mercury would be welcome. Phoenix plays back-to-back road games beginning tonight at New York. They are at Washington on Tuesday.
The Mercury have lost 12 straight road games dating back to last season.

Funny, the headline says she's ready for a bigger role, yet she says she's not in game shape, but can play the minutes she's getting. This fans says it is time to increase those minutes.

mb · Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:03 pm Post subject:

Let me mention once again how lucky the Mercury fans are to have two newspapers covering the teams both home and away. Many other teams don't have that. Please send some thank you letters and e-mails to the sports departments of the local papers.

Jeff Metcalfe and Jeff Simon, keep up the great work!!! :!:

Kevin Ray, the radio coverage is great also...even without the uninhibited Aussie color. :wink:

gia · Guest

Quote: "The team likes playing with Kristen Veal,'' Sharp said. "She is the truest point guard we have. She understands who the shooters are and she can get the ball to them. She gives us more stability.''
Thank goodness she gets it. I was beginning to worry!

If she's only good for about 13 min. per game then I'll take my Veal in 6.5 min per half intervals please rather than all at once ;)

Thanks mb (and Jeff M. & Jeff S. for the always great Merc coverage)

mb · Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 1:45 pm Post subject:

My bet is that she is good for 20 minutes (ten per half), with increases to 24 and 30 minutes shortly. At LA, in her first game back, she played 24 minutes and 10 minutes the following night. During those 24 minutes her first night back; she produced 7 assists, 5 steals, 1 rebound and 6 points.

Grubin works so much better at the SG position. While Moises is faster than Veal and Grubin, perhaps she will be more conscientious and less susceptible to turnovers if Veal is getting more minutes.

caune · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Well, I am breathing a sigh of relief, first because Linda "gets it" as Gia put it and second, because Vealy wasn't traded to detroit who just picked up guard Elaine Powell for Detroits Wendy Palmer. Detroit was desperate for a PG and I would imagine they inquired about Vealy....maybe a Jeff can confirm that :?: