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eaction83 · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

I guess you just don't mess with the Princess.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/mercury/0626mercuryonline.html

Gaucho81 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 147 Location: Ventura, CA

eaction83--
That's my guess as well. Maybe Cooper approached Seth with the idea of trading Lisa and the lightbulb went off in Seth's head.:idea:

Funny, my post(s) and yours are listed at the same time (of course, I accidently hit reload at one point and ended up posting twice).

Dunkin_Dan was actually the first one to pose the issue in another thread trying to get confirmation.

:P :P Let the Chemistry Roll!!!! :P :P

eaction83 · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Another article about it, from the Houston Chronicle.

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkw/1472638

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:36 pm Post subject:

Yeah it was posted by a reliable person but I didn't want to get my hopes *too* high until I saw it in writing somewhere I trusted.

Let the chemistry roll? Couldn't have put it better.
:D

Full credit to the players for still managing to handle their business even throughout all the turmoil of this season.
And boy did Lisa make a point with her numbers tonight :!:

Go Merc!!

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Platypuses claim credit with their wonderful hexing ability (enhanced by the mystical power of the bobblehead of Lin Dunn).

Hillary · Joined: 22 Jun 2002 Posts: 10 Location: Phoenix

Curious if anyone was listening on the radio to potgame with Lisa? When the comment was made about the turmoil and losing the coach, the crowd that had stayed went wild with applause.

I was wondering if anyone out there in radio land could hear that?

At any rate I am thrilled, and I honestly don't think the Lisa issue had much to do with it. Cooper can't stand losing and can't stand not being in control, she was clearly not by her own statements with this team. So, she bailed, typical... really should have seen it coming.

The good news is that the team HAS to be better off, as has been pointed out by others, they had a very favorable schedule to begin the year, and there was no coaching genius going on here to get them to their current record.

At the end of the day, the Merc are far better off, and frankly what's more important is that those two little babies get their mom full time right now. Everyone wins....

kharris · Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 172 Location: East Tennessee

I, too, heard that roaring applause in AWA, Hillary :) Just like so many on this board have said, we disgusted fans were not the minority, just a small representation of the majority :D

Gaucho81 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 147 Location: Ventura, CA

Hillary--
Yes, the cheering crowd response came through during the interview with Lisa when Coop's resigning was mentioned (and it was quite loud :shock: ).

I agree with your assessment for her two little ones, and especially the rediculous idea of taking the babies on the road, NOT :!:

So now, as you say, everyone wins, and eventually Cooper will realize that whether or not she does now.

The best of luck to her and her family and if she still wants to be a coach in the future hopefully she will settle for an assistants position so she can observe and learn about coaching before jumping back in with two feet.

Great game tonight Merc!

Ya gotta believe that Lisa's performance was fueled by Cooper's departure. She will probably be on Cloud 9 for the rest of the season. :wink: I sure hope so :lol: :P 8)

gia · Guest

The Queen is dead, long live the Queen!

Lisa's performance tonight was the final exclamation point in a book that should never have been written.

:!:

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

gia, nice addition to your avatar ;)

gia · Guest

Thanks! I added that this afternoon right about the time that mgmt was meeting with Coop. Maybe my avatar has absorbed some of the mystic powers of the platypus :)

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

:lol: the avatar did it....the quizzes were a big factor as well :!:
Princess Monarchy reigns :wink: ...

(note) gia's posts continue to keep me laughing ......her humor and wit are truly a gift :D

Cable Internet Access -$45/mth
Season Pass and Audio Pass $50/yr
access to gia's posts all year - PRICELESS :D

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

As a response to the apparent demand for an experienced coach, I'd remind people that Michael Cooper and Dee Brown have been doing a pretty good job for having no prior coaching experience. And I'm sorry, but you won't convince me that Cynthia wasn't doing a pretty good job either. Yes she made mistakes, but who doesn't? Even Phil Jackson makes stupid decisions sometimes. She was unquestionably better as a WNBA coach than Carolyn Peck, Linda Hargrove, Greg Williams, or any of the Starzz coaches before Candi Harvey, and they all have/had much more coaching experience. I think too many people, especially in the stands, were prepared to hate her from day 1 simply because she's Cynthia, and thus never gave her a fair chance. That was the big mistake made with this hiring, not her own ability or inability to coach, but that no one else could accept her as a coach. And I think that probably played a role in yesterday's decision--this team's management does keep an unusually good pulse on fan sentiment, after all. In fact, you people have to be the most powerful group of fans that sports has ever seen--first you stare down the league and get Brandy in the All-Star game two years ago, and now this. If the team is looking for local ownership, maybe you ought to push for a ballot measure to make them publicly-owned, like the Green Bay Packers. You're practically running them already anyway (with Seth as prime minister and Princess as the beloved figurehead) :lol: so why not make it official? :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Having said all that, there are some pretty good coaches available out there who are looking for work. Not just Tom Collen, but also Cheryl Burnett and Carol Ross immediately come to mind.

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Just noticed the picture they have up of Cynthia on ESPN's WNBA page. It is indeed a tribute to the legacy she leaves behind in Phoenix with her many adoring fans... :wink:

[/img]

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

I doubt management forced Coop out... why would they do it MID SEASON? And as you pointed out, she hasn't done particularly badly.

Coop has her own reasons... and it's not the babies. She just stated a few days earlier that she would continue to coach even with the babies.

caune · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Camcrazy, are you eaction83????? Or are there 2 people pushing that gang of college coaches?

BTW Michael Cooper had one year as an assistant under Orlando, and Dee Brown, well the juries still out on him;)

I want some/any experience, could be as an assistant, could be as a college coach, could be as an NBA assistant just as long as they have coached something before and aren't being hired to fill seats, appear on tickets and billboards and keep their face in front of the public!

gia · Guest

I don't think it was a matter of hating her as much as it was a matter of hating the decision to hire her over an experienced coach given the reasons they hired her.

Of all the people that were in the running for the job (can anyone rattle them off?), they chose to go the route of name over experience. You know the League head office was probably reeling from her announcing her retirement so I imagine there had to be at least some pressure from there to hire her here to keep her name in the game. At the same time the Mercury knew that Cheryl leaving (love her or hate her) was going to affect the fan base to some degree.

The goal was to put people in the seats. The result was the opposite. She put together a talented team this season, however her connection with the fans (not all) and the players (not all) didn't ignite.

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

No, I'm not camcrazy. I'm MastFan. And I am a college fan first and foremost, so naturally I know the college coaches pretty well.

I don't think it was a matter of hating her as much as it was a matter of hating the decision to hire her over an experienced coach given the reasons they hired her.

Same difference. Either way, it's still approaching the hiring with a closed mind and being predisposed to see her fail.

The goal was to put people in the seats. The result was the opposite.

Exactly. Which, as I said, was ultimately the reason the hiring was a mistake, not because she could or couldn't coach. Personally, I believe that coaches should coach and not worry about whether or not they're popular with the fans, many of whom (not you all on this board) don't know a pick-and-roll from a dinner roll, and many others of whom would be content to see the team driven into the ground as long as their favorite player gets 35 minutes a night, a-la the Blodgett wing of Sacramento fans. But even so, you can't have a coach that's unpopular to the point of driving fans away. And when a coach is that unpopular a choice even before being hired, the team really ought to rethink whether this is someone they really want.

But gia, I don't know how you can say she had no connection to the players at all. Did Jen Gillom's comments to the paper this morning sound like a player who was happy to see her coach leave? Do you think Jay Saunders is thrilled about this? Or Bonfiglio, who came here mostly because of Coop? Or Grubin, who was happy to get out of Indiana and come play for Coop because her system was a "much better fit for my game"? (her quote) Lisa may be the most visible face of the team, but she is not the whole team, and just because she apparently had issues with Cynthia doesn't mean everyone in the locker room did.

gia · Guest

I didn't say she had no connection to the players at all. I said her connection with
Quote: "the players (not all) didn't ignite"
I don't doubt there was sadness and shock at her leaving so abruptly. I'm sure there were friendships beyond the court and those that owe her a debt of gratitude for saving them from sucky situations and giving them a new start. No one is ever going to say outload "oh ya! I was dancing a jig when I heard the news" even though I'm sure there were happy feet making tapping noises in a few places.

It wasn't just Lisa. There's way way more to this story....most of which will remain unsaid.

Hillary · Guest Joined: 22 Jun 2002 Posts: 10 Location: Phoenix

I for one have never said that the problem was in hiring an inexperienced coach. It was in hiring the self-appointed queen of the wnba, the "this town's not big enough for the both of us Swoopes" all about me Cynthia Cooper.

Do I think Jerry and company under-estimated the passion that some Merc fans would have against the hiring of Cooper because she killed us so many times? Sure, but imho the problem in hiring her was the same problem that you almost always have with star players - in order to win and repeat you almost always have to have egotisical, all about me player(s) as the go-to people

Of course there area few expections you can point out, but by anrd large this holds true for all sports.

Go ahead, name the GREAT players who have been GREAT coaches, ok, there's Larry Bird, and great coach might be stretching it a bit with him, and he ended up quitting. Michael Cooper was a incredible defensive player, a great student of other players games. He played on great teams with the Lakers, a starter yes, but never the star of that show. And as far as the Sparks go, their problem has always been mental, not talent, so good for him that after a dozen other coaches tried it, he finally got to them because maybe they were finally frustrated enough with their results to listen.

Ok this is much longer than I planned, but the bottom line is, if you are going to hire an inexperienced coach - GET A BENCH PLAYER, they sit on the pine and listen to what the coaches are doing, figure out what does and doesn't work - and most importantly are mentally prepared to handle the ups and downs of watching a team win and lose and not being involved in the on the court action.

Any 1st year psych student could have predicted that Coop would not be successful as a coach, the mentality is simply a bad fit, and she demonstrated that often enough. As far the current record the team has, let us not forget that we played mostly at home, and beat Wash w/o Chamique, Utah w/o Natalie, and Sac w/o Yo Yo. In my estimation we would likely be 4-7 if those folks had played.

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Lenny Wilkens: one of the NBA's 50 greatest players on top of being its all-time winningest coach. Wes Unseld didn't do a terrible job as a coach either, considering that he WAS coaching Washington. :lol: But you're right, they are few and far between.

And I'll give you Washington, but not the other two. Nat got off to a terrible start this season, and the Yo factor really is irrelevant because unlike the other two, she's only played one game all year (which they lost). It's not like we happened to luck out and other teams didn't.

cbibat · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

Am going to agree with Keegan on this one. don't think the Merc management forced her out - teams don't usually 'dump' a coach in the middle of a winning season. That said, whatever caused her decision may have supported by the Merc management so that there was the infamous 'mutual decision'.

I was not in favor of her hiring, but was willing to give her a chance. Last yr was a bust for a lot of reasons. The 'rift' between her and Harrison started last year but generally they both seemed to work on the 'don't have to like my boss, just have to work for her' principle.

Did Coop make mistakes, yes.... did the players on the court make mistakes, yes.... but for the 1st time in years, since maybe as far back as 98, we have a TEAM on the court, who are playing together, fighting hard and not giving up. Coop has to get credit for some of that. Just as was said in another thread - a team does not win or lose solely because of the coach..... if she was 'responsible' for the 'bad' things that happened she should also be given credit for the things that went well - and there are alot of those.

The Merc have been lucky - we've only had 2 coaches in our history as opposed to several other teams that only now seem to have found a coach that will work....

Now guess we'll really find out what the team's made of.....

gia · Guest

Article in the Houston Chronicle

Cooper's exit raises questions

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/sports/bk/bkw/1475672

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

good article :!: :!: thanks... I wish I knew the other players reactions and if they felt the same as Jenn :?:

:shock: :shock: pic of Coop above yellin at Kayte :shock: :shock:

gia · Guest

And yet another article about the blessed event of last week :)

http://espn.go.com/wnba/columns/voepel_020628/1400096.html

SportsFan48 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1135

gia - thanks for posting that article. I think the writer had a good perspective on what was going on. I have seen the Jeckyll and Hyde in Cooper's personality. I have seen her at her best, relaxed and engaging. I have also seen her at her worst. Unfortunately, for the Phoenix fans, we saw to much of the worst.

I think Cooper's decision was motivated by ego. From what I have seen of Cooper in the past, I don't think any of the trials that she has faced this season (Brandy, the "rift" with Princess, the twins, etc.) would have made Cooper quit. I think the fans were put into a situation where they had to choose between her and someone else and they didn't choose her.

SportsFan48 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1135

skew11 - I had some discussions with a few players and I think most felt like Jennifer and would have preferred that Cooper stayed - at least until the end of the season.

I don't know for sure how Lisa feels about Cooper's resignation, but I think it was hard on her emotionally. And while Lisa might not be overly sad that Cooper is gone, I think she would have preferred to work things out.

I don't think Cooper or Lisa wanted their problems to become public knowledge. I still feel the situation was Cooper's fault. Lisa stood up for what she thought was right (something Cooper would have done herself) and Cooper must have felt that Lisa didn't have respect for her. And her way of handling the situation was to disrespect Lisa and not recognize her contributions. When she did that, she brought the fans into the mix and put games on the line. The rest is history; as is Cooper.

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

sportsfan48, thanks for the info. I would think they all felt the way Jenn did but I/we may never know for sure.

I never read anywhere what the actual problem was between Lisa/Coop or could have been several things? I wish things would/could have been worked out and changes made at the end of season. It appears that it probably wouldn't have worked out so this might have been the best thing for the solution.

No need to look in the rearview now ....let's hope Sharp can/will do the job from here on out.

Gil · Guest Joined: 25 Jun 2002 Posts: 84

Sorry to get into this discussion so late, but....

Hillary, another GREAT player who was a GREAT coach you could argue was Bill Russell for the Boston Celtics, when he took over as a "player-coach" the year after Red Auerbach retired and helped the Celtics win their last successive NBA championship....Don't know if Cooper could've been successful as a "player-coach" but it would've been fun to watch.

Let's now give Linda Sharp, a coach with excellent coaching credentials in her own right (including helping a Division III program at Concordia University in Austin have its first-ever winning season last year), our full support to see what happens the rest of the year.

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Saw this article that's on the front page over on ESPN right now about Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's experiences with trying to become a coach, and couldn't help but think about how some of it could have also been written about Cynthia Cooper. Kareem is 180 degrees opposite of her in coaching style, but the dynamic of "not-so-personable ex-superstar learning to become coach and communicator" is still very much at work in his case. Even apart from the Cooper parallels though, it's still a good article just by itself. It's very long though.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/neel/020702.html

caune · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Thanks for that article, eaction. I grew up in Milwaukee and Lew (Kareem :wink: ) is a big reason I have a basketball jones (OK, him and Luscious Allen who was soooo hot with his tight shorts and big 'fro :D ) I grew up idolizing the Bucks!
Seems to me Kareem would make a good coach for a veteren WNBA team ie NY. I am not sure he'd fit here, although the thought of him teaching Maria his sky hook is very tantillizing!
it it would be nice if someone gave him a chance.........