Gotnext Women's Basketball Boards

rebolpuppy · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:56 am Post subject:

Hi Dunkin' Dan

Yeah, heated beats sanctimonious windbags any day. At least people do give a damn.

The snarkiness wasn't *just to be* snarky, just a rebuttal of self-serving statistics. The turnovers have just been the death of the team on so many occasions, and the point's been made that turnovers have increased significantly for other team members since Diana arrived.

My sense from *listening* to the broadcast and my friends' sense from seeing the game was that they *didn't* go down swinging. The number of times the play-by-play guy said Phoenix didn't look like a team whose playoff future hung in the balance - well, I just lost count.

I *think* it started Tuesday, when the Merc looked unprepared for the Monarchs without DeMya Walker, and then the Houston game was just a shambles of bad defense and chaos on the floor.

Cap that off with tonight, and you've got a lot of disgruntled people. I have no doubt Taurasi is one of them.

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:37 am Post subject:

I'm sure your intent wasn't just to be snarky, just as my intent wasn't to be self-servingly selective with stats (or to alliterate to such a great extent). They were just the standard stats, and frankly all I could be bothered with at the time.

To address the turnovers issue, there's no doubt it is a huge area of concern for us. Last year it was rebounding that annoyed me on a nightly basis. With Maria in the team we do ok in that department, but still the turnovers remain. The stats say that Anna's are up. 1.6 in 2003, 2.0 in '04 and up to 2.4 this year. I find it hard to blame all of that on DeForge. We should know her game well enough by now to know that she's not a great ball handler or passer, and our system needs to allow for that.
When the D plays an aggressive man-on-man game with us we fall apart, (1) because we don't have the best handles, and (2) because we don't work hard enough IMO to free up our teammates. Whether that is discipline or coaching it is hard to say. Listening to the Sac game - when Carrie was mic'ed up - was quite revealing to me. Too many times she was calling things out that players should have recognised themselves. Do we spend to little time watching & analysing game tapes? Are our players just not focussed? Are our schemes too complicated? It's hard to know where it goes wrong, and it only takes one little mistake to give up a costly turnover or miss a critical defensive assignment.

The one thought entering my head as I write this is that, in the long term, I don't believe we can afford to have both Snell & DeForge on our roster. Offensively I think they are too similar. Our offense needs variety.
I was thinking about the trade suggestion that would give us Harrower, and thinking to myself "what do we need in a point guard?" My list of things was just too long to be realistic! Handly attributes would be an in-your-face defender, quickness, ability to penetrate, someone who can stick the open shot, a veteran leader.... i.e. too many things to realistically find in one player. But we definitely need variety.

If we lose Anna & keep Snell we're taking a big gamble, not to mention giving up a whole heap of defense. If we go the other way we potentially give up a potent scorer and a good-sized player who blocks out and rebounds very well. I wouldn't want to make that call, but I also don't want to remain such a predictable offensive unit.

I think I need much more time to reflect on the season, lose any emotion, and then get brutally honest.

dimples684 · Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Mililani, Hawaii

Gyrl what is wrong with you? Well if you would have watched the game

today maybe you would know the difference. Dee tried her best today,

she passed the ball to everyone of her team members and the only one

that really helped her was Kamila. But I give all the props to the Mercury

Ladies for playing so hard today and tried their best. I know we didn't

make it to the Playoffs but hey the Ladies tried. I know that the fans are

pretty mad that we didn't make it but we'll try harder next season okay.

Ladies we will try hard next season and never forget that we are praying

for y'all everyday okay. Thank You all for a good season and will make it

next time okay Ladies..... Take Care and God Bless you all okay.

Mahalo and Tofa,

Adrienne

RAZGIRL33 · Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 39

andypanda wrote:
My thinking is there'll be a few faces missing from today's Merc, though. That was as uninspired a performance as I've ever seen by a team whose shot at the playoffs is on the line, and - as game plans go - that was a pretty good way to showcase Dee as a player who makes her teammates worse, not better.

I'm no fan of Taurasi's, but if responsibility for the way the game *looked* rests on her shoulders, I'd be very surprised. I've always argued she was overrated, but I don't think I've besmirched her actual *character* in any way.)

Woah! I didnt see anyone else on the team getting 31 points,8 rebounds, and 6 assist. KV was the only other player who even came close. I am sure that PT would have done better if she wasnt hurt. And the bench had limited experience which is not their fault. But Diana played the way the rest of her team should have. She set them up, set screens for them and what did they do?How is that in any way,shape, or form her fault? And when it came to the last shot what did she do? She unselfishly passed it to KV instead of taking it! And KV made it. And as far as her being overrated.........lets see....
3 NCAA CHAMPIONSHIPS
1 GOLD MEDAL RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE
1ST ROUND PICK IN THE WNBA
ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
31 POINTS,8 REBOUNDS AND 6 ASSISTS IN THE LAST CHANCE FOR A PLAYOFF ON AN INJURED KNEE
Wow, she is really overrated. It reminds me of a quote that PP made that there was a lot of hype to Dee's name.Normally I wouldnt be posting everything that DT has done, but what you said is clearly wrong, so I just had to point it out. And by the way, not to discredit AD, but what was her excuse for not playing well? DT tries to get the team involved and if they dont perform she is going to take over and do what she can. Anyway, it was a great season and they did make a good comeback from the beginning.I am disappointed as well as all the other fans that they didnt get in the playoffs. I hope that they all reevaluate this season and realize what they need to change in order make it next year. I also hope that they get some rest and heal up. Have a great offseason Mercury!

dimples684 · Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Mililani, Hawaii

First of all I wasn't talking Sheit about DT okay. She is my all time

favorite and my idol as far as sports okay. So calm down alright. I know

she scored 31 points and I know she did more than that okay I saw the

game too.. I love Taurasi believe me and she tried her best to keep

her team members involved but they just couldn't hit the shot's that they

needed okay. Believe me I'm not putting anyone down. I know the fans

are upset but hey they are out there playing their best but it's not easy

if your facing a tough team alright. We are not the ones out there playing

maybe you should go out there and play andy since you talk all that but

I don't see you playing for the Mercury Team or any other teams in the

WNBA alright? Get my drift. I know how the Ladies are feeling right now

because hello I use to feel that way when we didn't make it to the

playoffs in the military okay. DT, Kamila, Anna, PT, A-Rob , and the

whole crew thank you for a good season. It's alright no harm done.

Hey i'll be praying for all of y'all and God Bless the whole team and it's

staff members.

Tofa,

Dimples684

Short BBallFan512583 · Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 43 Location: East Coast

rebolpuppy wrote: Hi Dunkin' Dan

Yeah, heated beats sanctimonious windbags any day. At least people do give a damn.

The snarkiness wasn't *just to be* snarky, just a rebuttal of self-serving statistics. The turnovers have just been the death of the team on so many occasions, and the point's been made that turnovers have increased significantly for other team members since Diana arrived.

My sense from *listening* to the broadcast and my friends' sense from seeing the game was that they *didn't* go down swinging. The number of times the play-by-play guy said Phoenix didn't look like a team whose playoff future hung in the balance - well, I just lost count.

I *think* it started Tuesday, when the Merc looked unprepared for the Monarchs without DeMya Walker, and then the Houston game was just a shambles of bad defense and chaos on the floor.

Cap that off with tonight, and you've got a lot of disgruntled people. I have no doubt Taurasi is one of them.
I agree, turnovers have killed them this season. In the Houston game, as well as the game last night they didn't have a whole lot of turnovers. However, they turned the ball over on critical possessions, that and some of the bad shots they took were basically the same as turnovers.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

my my, aren't we all just a tad over caffinated here :roll:

I love Anna and I love her game, her defense this season has been a big key to some of our wins. She works hard, she improves an aspect of her gamne every season and :D She's a Wisconsin home girl :D

That said, IF we get a top 4 pick, our choices in the lottery are going to be guards, good guards, all star guards, so that make Anna either a come off the bench player or trade bait, just the honest truth.

Now someone said Anna is an unrestricted FA, I believe that is wrong and she is a Restricted FA, there is a difference. We can match a RFA offer and then trade her.

I do kinda like Cams trade to Minnesota idea, They so desperately need veterns on their team, and we need rebounding and a steady hand to lead the team. But really I'd rather trade for a center not another PF because I think Kamilla and Sandora can handle that positon!

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Ten minutes into the game, Dee had taken the same number of *shots* as the other starting four *combined*.

It was far too early at that point to determine who was shooting well and who wasn't. Taylor already had two, which sat her down.

Either that was Graf's plan or somebody made it up on the fly out on the court, which makes this Quote: 31 POINTS,8 REBOUNDS AND 6 ASSISTS IN THE LAST CHANCE FOR A PLAYOFF ON AN INJURED KNEE a bad plan in my book, and, hello, it didn't work. The fact they were 0-2 the prior two games made it an even worse idea.

If the Merc don't run, neither Taylor nor DeForge can get into any kind of shooting rhythm.

As for you, dimples, I'm 5'3", and soccer was my game for obvious reasons. I've enjoyed watching your WNBA career, too. :roll:

Anyway, ShortBBallFan, DD & Caune, I think Cam's trade suggestion has some merit, too, and most certainly the timing of the turnovers killed them this week. Harrower's getting up there, though, isn't she? She didn't seem all that effective late in the season.

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Various

andypanda wrote: Anyway, ShortBBallFan, DD & Caune, I think Cam's trade suggestion has some merit, too, and most certainly the timing of the turnovers killed them this week. Harrower's getting up there, though, isn't she? She didn't seem all that effective late in the season.

I wouldn't be giving much up for Harrower. I would acquire her purely to replace Ivey's role as backup PG, although she could probably play a few more minutes at that spot than Niele does.
Tamika would be handy I guess. As usual I suppose we will have to plan our moves on the assumption that Maria will not be joining us. That being the case, our front court is a glaring weakness.
But as Caune said, what we really need is a center to replace Maria, not yet another power forward. Kamila has shown that she thrives at the PF spot, and I would hate to lose that.

Cam's suggestion seems roughly fair to both sides but I don't see how it benefits us.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Penny sat because of 2 fouls, she is the Rodney Dangerfield of the WNBA :?

And Kristi is getting up there...if you call 30 up there :shock: That's prime time in my book :wink:

There are other possibility's out there. The expansion draft which will take place in the fall I think will make things more clear, and the draft lottery will either make us happy (top 4) or confused if we get the 5th pick because then it becomes a much chancier pick.
The college season is going to be very interesting!

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Thank God! I love you guys so much just 'cause you can *read*! :)

Yep, DD, it seems more *equitable* than anything else, and I've always liked Iveys' game. Another player who got the short shrift in Indiana & Detroit, imho.

But, as you say, the glaring hole is in the middle, and I think another season of getting Stepanova on weekends and alternate Thursdays is futile.

Caune, I say just let Rodney play, because you put her on the pines and her production just goes right into the tank. :)

As for 30, I used to think it was prime time, too, until I got past it. Now I'm dead certain 35 is prime time! Yay 35! :)

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:11 am Post subject: Re: :)

andypanda wrote: Thank God! I love you guys so much just 'cause you can *read*! :)
I love you too, 'cause you're easily pleased 8)

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

If Penny hadn't have been playing on one leg, I think she would have been out there, fouls or no, but she could barely walk :roll: let alone run...a requirement in basketball :wink:

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:20 am Post subject:

Yeah, she was struggling big time. Was sad to see.
We needed one of those patented Anna 2004-vintage streak shooting performances, but it just didn't happen for her despite some good looks.

Gil · Joined: 25 Jun 2002 Posts: 84

I started this under the Storm thread, but thought I'd carry it over to here. There were a few items that this game against the Storm showed that the Mercury definitely need to improve upon next season, not only to make the playoffs, but to advance in the post-season. This game was almost a model of what has occurred during the entire season.

1) A commitment to developing an inside game with the post players. Of course, when Maria or Kamila are in the game and posting up their defenders on the block, they at least get a token look inside to keep the opposing team honest about guarding the Mercury post players instead of sitting back in the paint. But more often than not, when Robinson or Irvin have posted up during games, even when they have an opposing guard on their back, they don't get an entry pass into the post. This would have been the perfect opportunity to work the inside game with Lauren Jackson sitting out the entire second half. It's a catch-22 in a sense. How do you expect the younger post players to develop and improve upon their skills, when they don't get the ball where they can make something happen durign the game? Force the defense to guard both the inside and outside honestly, and things should open up more freely for the Mercury's offensive sets.

2) Quit relying so heavily on putting up the three-point shot during the games. If the guards aren't hitting their outside shots (like DeForge these last few games), then it's usually one shot and we're done - we don't force the opposition to play defense on all of our players, or are able to get to the foul line to create some offense when the shot isn't falling. In addition, if there's a miss, it's usually a long rebound that the post players can't get to because they're pinned too far inside the paint and it leads to too many fast-break opportunities for the opposition.

3) We need to play our bench players more during the season to help their development and give them confidence that they can contrbute later on in the season for games like this. There was a strong sense early this year that if Maria did show up, she more than likely wasn't going to be able to finish the regular season becuase the World Qualifying Tournament overlapped the WNBA season. That said, then why not prepare the younger post players (Robinson and Irvin) to be better prepared when Maria did leave by affording them with early, significant minutes during the season to improve their play. Ashley got a lot of early minutes, but Irvin did not. Only during these last few games did we catch a glimpse of what Irvin could bring to the Mercury. In addition, our young perimeter players (Snelly or Williams) also didn't get a lot of time during the season. Certainly, each of them could've been prepared to step in and make a contribution during games, like tonight's, with Taurasi and Taylor not completely healthy during the game, or with DeForge's outside shot not falling.

If you doubt this third point, then look at what Seattle did this season with bringing along their first-round draft pick, Tanisha Wright, and providing her significant minutes off of the bench during the season when Betty Lennox and/or Sue Bird were unable to play b/c of injuries. As a result of Wright playing out on the floor early on in the year, her skills improved, and tonight she looked comfortable and relaxed scoring a career-high (17 points I think) in the game. Or you can look to Sacramento and see how they use their bench. It certainly could've come in handy tonight.

All in all, I give the Mercury credit this season for coming back after a dreadful start to be in the running for a playoff spot. But I see it as another missed opportunity. The Mercury can't continue this trend over the last two seasons - to finish the last week of the regular season, sitting in fourth place, and lose 3 out of 4 games and expect to make the playoffs.

As for the draft lottery, I'd wait to see what first happens during the expansion draft in Nov. or Dec. of this year to see which 6 players the Mercury are going to protect. This could then influence who they go for during the draft next April. In the draft, you want to try and acquire a difference maker, a player who immediately makes your team better. This upcoming rookie draft's strength is shooting guards (Poindexter & Currie), though there are some point guards also available (like Erin Grant at Texas Tech), but I'd question taking a point guard with a high first-round pick, when you can acquire one later in the draft or as an undrafted free-agent/international player pick-up. The center position is not as strong. The Mercury need to acquire a permiter player that can shoot the outside shot, just as well as they can create their own shot or set up other players, like Taurasi. Keeping Chandi Jones, instead of trading her to Detroit on 2004 draft day, could've provided that type of player to Phoenix's backcourt, which they currently do not have on their roster.

I'm curious to hear what others have to say. Oh well, there's never a dull moment with the Mercury and it has been an interesting season to say the least.

RAZGIRL33 · Joined: 27 Jul 2004 Posts: 39

dimples684 wrote: First of all I wasn't talking Sheit about DT okay.

Hello Dimples. My comments were not directed towards you. They were directed at the quote that was highlighted. As for my WNBA career, since you did ask.....
I have spent the last 13 years of my life in the US Navy which has left me with little time to have a fabulous WNBA career. Anyway, I apologize if I offended you! :D

dimples684 · Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 11 Location: Mililani, Hawaii

Aloha Razgyrl and AndyPanda, :D

How are you two doing? I hope both of you two are doing good because as

for me i'm okay gyrls. I like to say i'm happy that we all can come in here

and talk to each other or post up messages for each other to read. But

no,the comments wasn't towards anyone. Thank you two for replying

though. But hey the Mercury Ladies tried their best. If they would have

won yesterday we would have been in the finals okay. But yeah we

missed it again but it's alright there's always next season. I know don't

nobody wants to hear that but hey they got some practicing to do. Hope

for the next season. Everyone enjoy your Sunday and talk to you all later

okay. ALOHA Everyone.. :D

Mahalo,

Dimples

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

Tamika Williams will play center for us. She is most comfortable within 5 feet of the basket...getting O boards and put-back baskets. This frees Kamila up for her jumpers.

Ruth Riley is another player with whom I would feel comfortable, as she can play the face-up game as well as with her back to the basket.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

looking at stats for this year versus last year - Anna wasn't the only one who had an 'off' year - when the numbers for the big 3 are compared to 2004, while they're close each year, this year- DT was down in points, down a bit in steals, up in turnovers, even in rebounds,up in assists, even in fouls; Anna was down in points, slightly down in steals, down in turnovers, even in rebounds, down in assists and up in fouls; Penny was even in points, up slightly in turnovers, down slightly in steals, up in assists, down slightly in fouls, up slightly in rebounds.

Question for Cam - is Ruth Riley still the player she was several years ago? She didn't 'seem' to have a good year this year. Wouldn't it be easier to acquire Tamika from Minn?

2nd question - what happens if we trade someone before the expansion draft? Are the 'tradees' protected from the draft? And... can Chicago sign players before the draft?

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Ruth Riley? No thanks. She doesn't show up enough and we already have enough post players who take the jumper.

I like the idea of Tamika Williams a lot.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Ruth isn't mean enough for my taste :twisted:

Gil you have very valid points. They need to commit to the post
The lack of an assistant who's a post coach really showed.
And if we are going to shoot so many jumpers we need rebounders :?
A solid back up for Penny would be nice to have too.

So peeps, put your 2 cents in..

Who do we protect? Assume we DON"T have to protect Penny because she is a UFA (long story but that's how it's supposed to work) so who's left
Diana
Anna
Kamilla
Maria
(Is she considered a UFA? She was drafted in 98? but do who years of not playing count towards years of service?Gil any insight on this)
Ashley
Sandora

This leaves Shereka unprotected, but I think she deserves a real vchance to shine and Chicago may be her place, and Angelina unprotected which kills me cause she's a joy to watch, but ....
some have suggested leaving Anna unprotected but that to me is just letting too much get away. After the Plenette trade for a bag of old socks it just smacks of desperation to leave someone as good as Anna unprotected for a great athlete who won't be starter calibre for 2/3 years.
JMHO :wink:

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

If Penny doesn't have to be protected, I agree with your picks caune. If Penny has to be protected, scratch Ashley from that list.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Chicago take Angelina because of her potential and she also has local links.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

so.... potentially we trade Anna for a post, lets say Tamika and then lose Penny to free agency?

that would leave us with Diana, Kamilla, a post of our choice and our bench?

that sounds like rebuilding....

do we know if Penny wants to come back?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Aloha Razgyrl and Dimples :)

Quote: How are you two doing? I hope both of you two are doing good because as

for me i'm okay gyrls. I like to say i'm happy that we all can come in here

and talk to each other or post up messages for each other to read. But

no,the comments wasn't towards anyone. Thank you two for replying

though. But hey the Mercury Ladies tried their best.

I'm partly recovered, too, and counting my blessings tonight my last posting wasn't back to New Orleans, one of my favourite cities. Good luck down there, people.

I always figure when bad things happen, I have to get my tantrum out of the way and then I can get around to dealing with it. If you can survive that, we'll be okay. It gets tiresome watching good players lose and lose heart.

I kind of like the Tamika Williams thinking, but I think rebolpuppy would be a little unhappy to lose Ruthie. Dunno how I feel about her in this mix, probably not a very good fit for the coaching staff either. :)

And Dunkin' Dan, I'm both easy and cheap, but up here at 7500 feet it doesn't help a whole heck of a lot. 8) Tha animals are starting to look attractive though. :D

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

The only way we lose Penny to free agency is if she WANTS to go, which I 'm pretty confident is NOT the case...she's so looking forward to Keegans visit next summer 8)

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

Here's my 2 cents, as uneducated as it may be.

I think the results from our last 3 games speaks all the volumes we need to hear. POST PLAYERS!!!!! I'm perfectly content with the guards we have (although the thought of Harrower gives me happy goose-bumps, I think she's much like my favorite, Timms). But Maria coming, then going, really pointed out where our weakness lies. And teams just went back to playing us like they did in the beginning of the season. Without a good center (and I agree Caune, I want a mean one - Yo Clone!) we are just WAY too predictable.

I say protect the same as Caune, at the risk of being labeled a suck-up.

*Shows a little ignorance* Isn't Sophia Young the player from Baylor? If so, then YEAH I'd love to get her. If she's the same one, then I remember being impressed with her game when I went to the NCAA rounds at ASU and in the Finals.

We get good in the post again, we are Gods and Monsters.

PS, Andy - I happen to love NL (I was around during her ODU days), and I think the majority of Merc fans don't even think about her anymore, except when she's on ESPN2. People get upset over Anna being inconsistent (which is not entirely her fault), which I doubt NL has anything to do with. And if they are stupid enough to say nasty things within earshot, then we will kick their ass. 'Nuff said.

Gil · Joined: 25 Jun 2002 Posts: 84

1) caune, "Year of Service" means that a player will be credited with one year of WNBA service for each year that the player is signed to a WNBA contract, but only if she is on the active or IR list for the start, or any other part of the regular season, for which the player is signed (in other words a player does not have to play a full year in the WNBA to qualify for one "year of service"). So, Maria would get one "year of service" for this season, but her years that she spent away from the team on the suspended list won't count.

2) Regarding the speculation on Penny's long-term status with the Mercury, two things that management needs to consider is the amount and length of contract to offer to Penny to keep her in Phoenix. This all gets into managing the salary cap b/c there will be additional players the Mercury could sign in free-agency. If you were to offer Penny a "max" deal, then you could concievably have two other players - Kamila and Maria - who could acquire similar deals from the team. It's debatable whether DeForge can receive a similar contract from the team in light of having to pay Penny more to re-sign her. And don't forget that in 2 seasons, Taurasi will have the opportunity to sign a new contract after her rookie deal expires, and could also receive a "max" deal - bringing the possible total to 4 players on the Mercury you could argue should get such deals. How the expiration of the current CBA in 2007 plays into this long-term salary cap management is another story for another day.

3) As for the Tamika Williams possibilities, I'm not sure that it would be so easy to acquire Tamika from Minnesota. Yes, she's a veteran and solid player in the league, but she is significantly undersized to play the 5 (shorter than Kamila). You could take a run at Tari Phillips in Houston who is better offensively than Tamika, though older than Tamika. Or try and get Tara Braxton (a true 5) away from Detroit (same height as Robinson and much better offensively), or Chantelle Anderson away from San Antonio.

4) In free agency, maybe the Mercury should try and save cap room to make a serious run at shoring up the PG position and go after Nikki Teasley. I think she only signed a one-yer deal with L.A., and she fell out of favor with the coaching staff. In addition, L.A. is having a tough time managing its salary cap space with the number of high-salaried players already on the roster (look at what happened in Seattle last season). If you had a choice between offering a contract for similar amounts to either player - DeForge or Teasley, knowing that this year's draft is strong in SGs, which player would you offer a contract if you were Phoenix management?

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

hmm, Anna or Teasley, tough choice for me, but Teasley would be my choice because Dee can play the 2 in Annas place

As far as max contracts, Kamillas is for 2 more years, then Diana will get that money (she has 2 more rookie priced years) and most likely K will retire. They have to offer Maria the Max, and I think Penny pretty near the max, but they could get away with a longer guarantee for less money...IF Penny wants to play for 4 more yeras? That doesn't leave much for Teasley who was unhappy with her 60,000.00 so Anna would be cheaper...but no real room for high priced FA's

Lambieer, he'll never part with Braxton, she'll do his dirty work, Ruth on the other hand would be optainable, but do we want her. And Tari Phillips has just lost it...and Chantelle is too nice for my taste;)

It's one big puzzle!

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

Tari - should never be a consideration
Braxton - No chance Laimbeer parts with her
Chantelle Anderson - doesn't rebound, doesn't play defense. If we wanted that, we would still have Plenette.

Tamika Williams is what we need. I would also like us to make a run at Delisha Milton-Jones.

iveyfan · Joined: 26 Aug 2005 Posts: 13

Ruth Riley is perfectly capable of playing inside; it's just the system that Lambieer runs that has her at the top of the key. And I find it funny that you guys think that she's too "soft" after hearing about all the people who think everyone on the Shock team are all dirty thugs.

Also, IMHO, I think Ivey is a perfectly capable backup point guard.

Mercurymaniac · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 1197 Location: Scottsdale

I'd be a little concerned about Riley as she pretty much disappeared from Detroit offense without Swin Cash. I thinks she's tough enough, she proved that in the Finals, but it does appear she's lost that finals form. If she can get that form back, I think she'd be a great addition.

ThatGAgirl · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 118

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Tamika Williams is what we need. I would also like us to make a run at Delisha Milton-Jones.

Is she Cam? And is this to compliment Maria or in lieu of? I love Tamika Williams, but I have always thought she was a bit undersized in the post. *If* Maria does not return, is she really that presence we need on the offensive end to keep defenses honest and free up things for our guards?

I don't know a lot about this kinda stuff, so I guess just wanted to know your reasoning.

[edit] I just read that Seth said of Maria: 'We have a 100 percent commitment for her to play next season including bringing her entire family over and spending as much time as she can here'...so I guess that answers most of my question :oops:

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Marias 100% ...I won't believe it till I see it...but if that's the case then draft/trade for a back up PG and a strong back up at the 3...and a BIG body who rebounds and isn't afraid to mix it up :wink:

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

ThatGAgirl wrote: CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Tamika Williams is what we need. I would also like us to make a run at Delisha Milton-Jones.

Is she Cam? And is this to compliment Maria or in lieu of? I love Tamika Williams, but I have always thought she was a bit undersized in the post. *If* Maria does not return, is she really that presence we need on the offensive end to keep defenses honest and free up things for our guards?

Williams is known for her inside play...defense, rebounding, putback baskets. She is 6-2/6-3, but she has a wide body she uses to great effectivenss in the paint. Having her there would free up Kamila for jumpers while having Williams in the paint to rebound. Plus, even if Maria comes back, it gives us a terrific post rotation with Sandora.

I am a Ruth Riley fan. Her drop-off this year appears to be more of a confidence situation. She was taking good shots, but they weren't falling. Also, Laimbeer's "practices" have not exactly been that great...the Shock practice for 45 minutes per day...no wonder they look ragged offensively. Ruth is one of the few back-to-the basket centers left. Yes, she has a face-up game, but she made her name playing with her back to the hoop.

AAEmotion · Joined: 19 Aug 2005 Posts: 39 Location: Australia

I love watching Back-to-basket players play. I don't know why - I think it might come from watching one of my players here do it all season - but I've come to LOVE watching that style of play. Ruth would be nice, Tamika would be nice - I'm not impartial to either player - both have their benifits and of course both come with their negatives (as any player does).

I do agree with Caune though, I'll believe the talk about Maria being here 100% when I see the results.

ThatGAgirl · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 118

CamrnCrz1974 wrote: ThatGAgirl wrote: CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Tamika Williams is what we need. I would also like us to make a run at Delisha Milton-Jones.

Is she Cam? And is this to compliment Maria or in lieu of? I love Tamika Williams, but I have always thought she was a bit undersized in the post. *If* Maria does not return, is she really that presence we need on the offensive end to keep defenses honest and free up things for our guards?

Williams is known for her inside play...defense, rebounding, putback baskets. She is 6-2/6-3, but she has a wide body she uses to great effectivenss in the paint. Having her there would free up Kamila for jumpers while having Williams in the paint to rebound. Plus, even if Maria comes back, it gives us a terrific post rotation with Sandora.

Thanks Cam. I agree that with Maria back that would be a darn good good post rotation! I just worry that in her abscence (sp??) we would still be a little small down low. Not the biggest Ruth Riley fan, but I have always had a soft spot for her, and it grew softer when I watched her absolutely destroy LL in the Finals in '03 :twisted: Maybe that was her one crowning achievement, but I still think she is a big body down there that can be a real threat to score. So, I like that idea as well.

Whats the probablilty that we get them both? :twisted: :twisted:

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:49 am Post subject:

I'm not a Riley fan either. Love what she did to LA, not impressed with the other 99% of her career.
Her offensive game is strictly facing the basket, and Kamila has proved that she does that just as well, so RR is pointless in that regard.
Her defensive rebounding is atrocious for someone of her size.
3.4 DRB per game. That is less than Taurasi or Beard. Not acceptable IMO.

We must have someone who can rebound. If they're undersized I can live with it, as long as they work hard, get good postion, block out,.. whatever it takes to get those boards.

Forget Ruth though, please.

ThatGAgirl · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 118

Dunkin' Dan wrote:

We must have someone who can rebound. If they're undersized I can live with it, as long as they work hard, get good postion, block out,.. whatever it takes to get those boards.

Forget Ruth though, please.

Now this I must wholeheartedly agree with! I think Tamika Williams is perfect in that regard. She is EXCELLENT on the boards. I was just a little concerned, as I posed to Cam a bit up in the thread, that on the offensive end of the court we would still be lacking a bit. We have the face up game, but who will we have that can get it done consistently with their back to the basket? That end moreso than on the defensive end/boards is where Tamika's size will come into play IMO. I'm just thinking in terms of Maria not being here next season of course. It seems to be the general consensus to *believe it when we see it* :)

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 9:02 am Post subject:

ThatGAgirl wrote: I was just a little concerned, as I posed to Cam a bit up in the thread, that on the offensive end of the court we would still be lacking a bit. We have the face up game, but who will we have that can get it done consistently with their back to the basket?
My response to this would be: just how many good back-to-the-basket players are there in this league?
Let's name them.
There aren't many, that's for sure, and I don't think you need one to have a good offense.
Kamila is the high post, so all we really need offensively from our centre is the ability to catch the ball if left alone, hit the layup, and contest for offensive boards.
That's my feeling anyway. It is great to aim high of course, but if you go too far you will raise the requirements so high that nobody can actually fulfill them.

ThatGAgirl · Joined: 08 Jun 2004 Posts: 118

Dunkin' Dan wrote: ThatGAgirl wrote: I was just a little concerned, as I posed to Cam a bit up in the thread, that on the offensive end of the court we would still be lacking a bit. We have the face up game, but who will we have that can get it done consistently with their back to the basket?
My response to this would be: just how many good back-to-the-basket players are there in this league?
Let's name them.
There aren't many, that's for sure, and I don't think you need one to have a good offense.
Kamila is the high post, so all we really need offensively from our centre is the ability to catch the ball if left alone, hit the layup, and contest for offensive boards.
That's my feeling anyway. It is great to aim high of course, but if you go too far you will raise the requirements so high that nobody can actually fulfill them.

Point taken, DD. You are right, there aren't very many! It just seems that most contending teams do have at least one player who is a threat to score when they catch the ball back-to-basket. Now they may not score (ala Ruth :P ), but at least the threat is there. Maria is not the best post up player, but defenses had to respect her as a threat. When she left, that threat left with her as no one seemed to respect our post game, as it was before she arrived. I probably worded it all wrong, but I guess I was just trying to say I hoped to pick up someone with a little more scoring prowess in the post to make a viable threat. Now who this mythical person is, I don't know! :D

But your point is very well taken, especially about raising expectations too high. I was basically just posting what I felt was sorely needed (looking back on the last few games) without considering who was actually out there and available that could fulfill those needs. :oops: