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CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

cbibat wrote: But Cam, that line up isn't working right now. Why would it work with just the addition of someone like Teasley? I know Anna and Diana are both 2's, but why not bring in a point and keep AD and DT. It is just a simple economic issue?

Not sure if you mean this season or next, so I will try and respond to both scenarios.

First, Teasley IS a point guard. And she was a good one before Henry Bibby came to town.

Second, it isn't like there is a large amount of available point guards to sign midseason. The best point guard not currently in the league is Ukari Figgs, and she is quite happy at Toyota. On the other hand, there are some quality backups that could be had, especially in the next ten days before the final deadline for guaranteed contracts.

You ask why we cannot bring in a point and keep AD and DT? It is economics. If Maria comes back, she will get a large salary (near the max). Kamila has a guaranteed contract at a hefty salary. Penny is an unrestricted free agent, meaning we will have to pay her to keep her. Anna will want the max. Phoenix cannot get Teasley at the max and also pay Anna and Penny...and I would rather have the younger Penny than DeForge if forced to choose between the two. Remember, we have to have 11 players (you are penalized if you only have 10), and we want to keep at least one on injured reserve. While Gwen, Sandora, Diana, Angelina, and Shereka are in their rookie deals, we still need to keep or get other players to fill out the roster...plus keep space for the rookies (especially in a year like 2006, with a talented draft pool).

Good point guards are hard to find, and you have to pay to get them. DeForge is the most expendible commodity, given we can put Diana at the two with a quality point guard. And I would prefer we do a sign-and-trade to get a draft pick for her.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

Wait, are you suggesting that the Mercury are trying to get a trade for a quality backup point guard.. :)

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: Cam's Math

Yep, Cam's logistics & economics make sense to me.

Just a minor gripe. The Bibby/Teasley comment was that Bibby probably wasn't happy Teasley's been picking her spots to play well this year. There wasn't any implication I can see that he *made* her a good PG.

This is an afterthought I edited in ...

I'm not sold on the notion of *any* athlete being a role model for children, but if you had to pick a WNBA player - ex-player in this case - you could do a lot worse than Ukari Figgs. She was never a superstar, never really famous and she knew at some point she had to put down the ball and use her education.

It's kind of why my favorite athlete anywhere is Aly Wagner, one smart chica [electrical engineering] and a pretty fair soccer player now that Ape is finally gone.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

kitkat310 wrote: Wait, are you suggesting that the Mercury are trying to get a trade for a quality backup point guard.. :)

Yes. Diana was going to play 34-35 minutes regardless, so management decided to go with the best players, not necessarily the best position players. At the time, I thought it was the right decision. However, as the season is nearing the halfway point, Diana looks mentally tired to me. She is 11th in the WNBA in free throws attempted, but only 25th in the league in free throws attempted per 40 minutes. She is strong enough to absorb contact, but not good at selling the foul to the refs. I think this is wearing on her, when you couple it with her other responsibilities on the court and in our offensive scheme. A quality backup point guard will allow Diana to play the same amount of minutes, but from the two...without the responsibility of initiating the offense.

Quote: The Bibby/Teasley comment was that Bibby probably wasn't happy Teasley's been picking her spots to play well this year. There wasn't any implication I can see that he *made* her a good PG.

Not quite following you, but I think we are saying the same thing.

My Bibby comment was a reference to how Teasley's game has regressed since Michael Cooper left LA. Nikki used her crossover and dribble-drive much more under MCoop, while she has become much more one-dimensional under Bibby's offensive scheme.

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 10:23 am Post subject: Henry Bibby

Quote: Not quite following you, but I think we are saying the same thing.

Okay, then my bad. :) (This is edited in post facto: I read it like "Henry Bibby wasn't the cause of Teasley being a good point", and now that I re-read I realize you were saying "She was a good one until Henry Bibby got here, and now she's not so good", so it really *is* my bad. Sorry. I put it down to aixelsyd. :)

Andy & I have a friend Jack - who doesn't post here - who saw Bibby play back in the day, and he's very much of the opinion Henry will most certainly lead the Sparks' backcourt in the wrong direction.

You're right. It's really noticeable with Teasley. She just might welcome a move come season's end, especially if the Sporks, sorry, Sparks, don't win the big prize.

He's reminiscent in a way with what I said above re Ape [April Heinrichs], who made "one-dimensional" the watchword for the WN Soccer team.

It's going to be really interesting to see if he can figure out what happens with Holdsclaw after a while.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

So, who would you hire if Carrie were to leave?

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 11:28 am Post subject: Did I miss something?

Wow! How did we get here?

I have no idea. I didn't even know anyone in the thread had advocated that. I sure don't want her gone, nor do I think she's the problem.

I thought it was the most surprising aspect of the thread, (almost?) unanimous support for Carrie. Did I miss something?

Added 14:33 - I can't find anything about that. If it's purely a rhetorical question, I'd say Michelle Timms, but I do want it clear I'm not an advocate of a coaching change. I feel confident Andy feels the same way, and seeing as how she's working at the moment and can't read or post, that's her vote, too.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Hmm, I saw the title of the thread and assumed because frankly, I can't make it through all these long posts...get to the point people!
:roll:

IMHO we have 2 problems, no Point Guard and the coaches system is not working with these players, and short of exchanging ALL our players.....

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:07 pm Post subject: The SoundByte ADD Post

Point is what's going on when Graf, who is a proven coach, and the team, which has some proven good players is 3-11, and is clearly in a state of dissension and disorganization.

Quote: I'm not actually calling for Graf's head on a plate, more like this whole franchise does things which absolutely mystify me. All the evidence I ever found about Carrie Graf's coaching abilities is positive except for this season.
That's part of the mystery. - Andy

Rather that telling people to get to the point, why not just avoid posting in threads you don't like? Some of us retain trains of thought for minutes on end, and not everything is a two-second earth-shaker about tim-tams.

I happen to think it's a good thread.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

hey puppy, learn to take a joke OK?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Must be kind to Suze.

As tiny baby, dangled in front of crocodile in Denmark, WA.

Survived.

Croc not so much.

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: Sorry

Okay, Caune, I just didn't quite get it as such. My answer was actually meant to be funny, too.

Here, have a tim-tam. :)

My experience was a little strange. Right after I read your reply, the power went off just long enough for my computer to go dead and reboot and all that wonderful crap.

So, I'm sitting here, waiting for scandisk to finish, thinking "Gee! Caune must be like God or something! Whoa!"

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

oh, and God double posted for you too...She does have a sense of humor :oops:

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:59 pm Post subject: :)

Yeah, She was hilarious here, bigtime. I clicked once, and Firefox came back with a garbage screen, so I got out of that and went back - forgot to clear my cache, of course - and there's nothing there. So, in the absence of a brain I clicked again, and boom, now I had two.

I think I got the delete part right, though. Want me to go through and shorten up all my posts? :)

Here's hoping this appears exactly once .... *puts both fingers in ears, hits enter key with nose .... *

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Maybe just a synopsis of the whole thread :P
In bullet point format for the ADD folks 8)

rebolpuppy · Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: How's this?

we're all pretty fed upwe can't agree on anything please check back in Septemberit gets worseGee Dubya is still presidentKarla Homolka got out of prison yesterdaySandra Day O'Connor is retiringI'm not Aly Wagner

So, whaddya think? Cool?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Terse is good.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Don't forget,

Liberal hate America :roll:

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Believe me, caune, my friend, that one we know.

I see you're on the moderator's list. Do you ever get flamed for comments like that?

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

nope, no flamers on this board...at the ESPN board, well let's just say it's like a burn unit over there :wink:
I'm surprised at how many conservatives do watch the WNBA, even though they probably won't admit it in polite :roll: company

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Yes, I know. When Suze and I were in the same place in Canada, we used to go to Rockers & Shock games. I'd never actually run into conservative gay & lesbian people before, either, until then. Conceptually, I still don't see how you do that. In Canada, I've found precious few conservatives as conservative as GWB. Up there, he'd be considered a faction, a fringe player.

What was really noticeble in both places, though was just what you said, straight, conservative Americans, male and female, taking in the games and enjoying them. Cleveland seemed to have a really successful family ticket program. It's a shame the Gunds pulled the chain on the Rockers, their crowds were in the same range as everyone else's.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

so Cam, we're looking for a back-up point guard for right now? Who would we trade right now? If its AD then it seems we're still in the same fix, 2 real guards with forwards backing them up. If its not AD, who would another team need/want?

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

Okay, lets repeat this again...Anna, Diana, Shereka, and Snell are all 2 guards. We have been forcing Diana and Shereka to play point. What the Mercury want is an actual point guard, so by trading Anna, they will still have four guards, just one of them will really be a Point guard...

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

Kitkat - was just going off what the roster says our players are - it shows both Snell and Wright as "F" - short ones at that, but still forwards... that's why it looks like the Merc have only 2 true guards. Know we actually have positions like 'point forward' .......... :wink:

SportsFan48 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1129

This is a great thread. A lot of discussion. Everyone getting along. :) And, while some hot topics have been discussed, most have been fairly positive.

I am not in favor of dismissing Graf. It is difficult to explain what is going on and easy to put the blame on her shoulders. I wouldn't disagree that some of the blame belongs there, but her dismissal will NOT solve our problems, IMO.

I have been an advocate of keeping AD, mainly because I do not think we will really be consistent as a team until we can get a core group to play together for a while. However, I can see wisdom in a trade that would bring a solid point guard to Phoenix and a trade involving AD would make the most sense, financially and long term.

I am often long winded and quite often bore myself as well as others with my fustian, but I have to agree with Caune on this one. When trying to "catch up" after a weekend away, it is difficult to follow the very long postings. It isn't a matter of ignoring the thread or not liking the thread. Maybe the same thing could be said with less verbage. Since, I am apparently unable to do the same, I really don't know what I am talking about.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

Really, they've always played guards..heck we make up our own positions.. :D Although I have seen snell replace Penny, but honestly if we had to force her..Penny could play the 2 as well..

azmindwalk · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 5 Location: Glendale, AZ

[I think now is where we get to the issue of coaching, and I mean the entire staff. I kind of liken it to my own life where I have my own superiors, and I have my own staff. I once had a problem with two people under me and I sought out some advice, which ended up being "Either the both of you grow up and be professional, or you're both gone." It works.

The problem here is that there is no Van Chancellor to just 'manage' people in a way that puts together four consecutive Championships like Houston did. He was used to coaching people exactly like he had in Houston. He commanded enough respect that they *would* put down their differences and play together.

There's *no one* in this organization who commands that. Michelle Timms earned the respect she gets as a player. Carrie Graf earned the respect she gets as a coach, and a good one, but not here, in Australia. Julie Brase is new. Seth isn't in this equation because I think it is a coaching issue as opposed to a management issue. ]

At the risk of stirring up the pot again on the coaching issue -- I still think we have a coaching issue.

Yes, I agree that we need a "true" point guard.

And, I also believe that AD has earned a permanent spot on this roster.

So, now that I've alienated half of this board, I will add the following: pulling the team together IS part of the coach's job. Inspiring passion and a belief in their ability to win is a coach's job. I just don't see anything that looks like leadership, passion or inspiration from our coaching staff.

Ex-NBAer? How about Dan Majerle? That man has NEVER accepted losing as an option. He has grace, style, passion, respect for the team, a wealth of knowledge to help them each develop their game and the leadership skills and charm to get them playing together. Surely, playing YMCA ball isn't enough to keep him occupied -- maybe he'd like the challenge?

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Dan can coach, but only AFTER he updates his menu at the restaurant, LOL
Please Dan get some new food :wink:

rebolpuppy · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:22 pm Post subject: The blame game

I blame andypanda for the long threads. Ever since she got the government contract and she's living up in the mountains, she's been bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh.

I think it's too much fresh air, solitude and if you think Majerle's food is bad, wait 'til you get a load of what she eats.

Anyway, she started the thread, she's getting up there in years, 34 or so, and I think we should trade her to the ESPN board for a BS-artist to be named later or a certified check.

Off-the-record? I think the old B-R-A-N-E is starting to go.

Mercurymaniac · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 1197 Location: Scottsdale

I don't think that coaching is the entire problem, but it is part of the problem.

After witnessing the massacre at LA, I couldn't understand some of the substitution patterns. Playing LH before Sandora or anyone else makes no sense to me. Yes, LH is a fan favorite, but she doesn't belong on the court anymore.

I would like to see more interaction with the coaches and players, it seems that none occurs during warm-ups and definitely I don't see much during the games. Julie and Timmsy don't seem to be doing much at all.

I agree Graffy needs to tell DT and AD to get over themselves and work together. This team seems to run out of gas in the second half, I'd like to see the bench get more minutes, so if people get into foul trouble, we don't have players standing on the court like a deer caught in the headlights.

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1043 Location: Phoenix AZ

rebolpuppy wrote: I blame andypanda for the long threads. Ever since she got the government contract and she's living up in the mountains, she's been bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh, bleh.

I think it's too much fresh air, solitude and if you think Majerle's food is bad, wait 'til you get a load of what she eats.

Anyway, she started the thread, she's getting up there in years, 34 or so, and I think we should trade her to the ESPN board for a BS-artist to be named later or a certified check.

Off-the-record? I think the old B-R-A-N-E is starting to go.
ROFLMAO
PUP.....You are toooo much :lol:
I know who will be sent to her kennel when AndyPanda sees Pup's comments :twisted:

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1043 Location: Phoenix AZ

2005 WNBA Transactions July 6
The Los Angeles Sparks have waived Gordana Grubin.

point guard? :wink: :?

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Grubin isn't much of a PG.

rebolpuppy · Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:14 pm Post subject: Hi 1Carol! :)

Quote: I know who will be sent to her kennel when AndyPanda sees Pup's comments

It's my subtlety. Everything just whizzes right over her head. :)

Anyhoo, you can expect email from us on the weekend about the trip! C u soon!

Great win tonight, huh?
[/quote]

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

Well it seems like the big three are playing well now..for some reason..although it seems like Shereka and Penny are taking some pressure off of Diana and Anna's shoulders..Letting Taurasi play the point better (still not where she belongs..) And letting Anna play better..

Mercurymaniac · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 1197 Location: Scottsdale

Bring GG back, I hope not!

MercuryBoFan · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 253 Location: Glendale

Exactly !!!

Diana Taurasi could be scoring 20-30 points a night if she wasn't dishing out the ball so much. Don't get me wrong, assists are great, but Diana can light it up like a fire cracker. In last night's game, she scored like 8 points out of nowhere then really didn't hear from her offensively.

Put someone else at POINT and let Taurasi be the scoring machine that she is !

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

DT would score more points if her shots fell. Its not like she's not shooting, she's taken 30 more shots than anyone else. I'm not being critical here, just based on the shooting percentages, if they continued to take the number of shots, but made more... we'd be lighting up the scoreboard.

that said - we do need a point, someone who will be the floor general.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

She hasn't been shooting as much as she should, and she should do more than take three point shots. In the last three games she has taken 12, 10, and 12..As long as the Merc stays on this winning streak thats okay, but when you have such a great scorer in Taurasi..it's kind of silly to have her take so few shots. And it all goes back to Diana being the point guard..she's handling it pretty well now that some other people are stepping up as scorers, but the point guard spot is not where Diana should be.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

Last year DT averaged 14.79 shots per game making 41.6%. this year she's shooting 13.94 times per game and making 39.9%. If she made 41.6% of her shots this year she would be adding 5.8 points per game to her total, which would have changed only 1 game. so, is her accuracy the problem or her shots per game?

Actually - if the big 3 were shooting their percentage from last year on their attempts this year it would add 15 points per game and we would have won 12 games so far. oh well.............. :(

Lets start the 2nd half with a true point guard!!!!!

GO MERC!