Gotnext Women's Basketball Boards

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

I don't think I'll get much of an argument from anyone that last night's game was pretty grim, and that Stepanova's performance late in the game was one of the few encouraging things to take from it, although she does nothing for the Merc inside defensively that I can see. (I *really* hope I'm wrong about that.)

We've thrashed to death the chemistry issue and of course it'll take time to get Maria into the flow, for Penny to get rested, yada, yada, yada.

That's not what's bothering me after witnessing the Sparks' debacle.

What's bothering me is that I can't begin to guess what's being said at halftime which seems to make this bad team of good players worse.

What's bothering me is that the vaunted Big Three of Taylor, Taurasi & DeForge is not a vaunted Big Three any more.

What's bothering me is that a team that should be running a *lot* is playing the most stagnant and unimaginative ball I've seen, and playing it without much enthusiasm at that.

Anna's not going to come in after a brief rest and reel off ten quick points to make it close at the
half. Either she doesn't get enough shots away for that, or she's having one of *those* nights again.

Dee can score 40 points if she wants to, but if she doesn't have confidence in her teammates, or if she's unfocused because someone like Meek is all over her, the game will become a one-on-one personal vendetta that will most certainly end in yet another double-figure loss. Basketball is a game best played with the eyes, the feet, and the hands, and not with the mouth.

Six assists don't count for much if you have five turnovers against a team which runs the floor and converts the turnover into points.

The puzzle of Penny last night is even more baffling. It seemed to me she had an okay first half, and then she got into foul trouble and sat. And sat. And sat. It's probably more to the point to have her play, score some baskets and foul out. She brings energy - even though she's tired - to the team when she's out there. Everybody on the staff is aware, I hope, that fouling out *is* the penalty when you get 6, there's not some sort of draconian extra Bad Thing that comes with it?

I don't have a problem with understanding *what* is happening, we're seeing good players throughout the roster decline in performance with every passing game. We're seeing the team consistently play worse in the second half than in the first, and we're seeing the ostensible team leaders apparently demoralized, frustrated and disspirited. This is a *major change* from last year, imho.

Here are the questions: is there a coaching plan beyond repeated experimentation? Will there ever be a set of circumstances under which the team can settle down and get into a rhythm? Will there ever be a time under its current management when the team won't be waiting for a new savior to land on a plane or come in this year's draft, another Greatest Player In Women's Basketball History? Will there ever be a game the opposite of the Minnesota Collapse of last year, when the Merc do what the Silver Stars did last night and score the last 24 points to pull one out of the bag?

There was a lot of talk couple of years ago, after Shumate was fired, "don't hire Dan Hughes, don't hire Brian Agler". After yesterday, I'm not so sure about any of that ...

But you sure have to hand it to management, selling all those tickets and buying all that time, don't you?

I think if we get down to 5 games left in the season, we're out of the playoffs, and the team differential is less than -10 a game, they should fire all the parking lot attendants. That'll snap 'em out of it for 2006 for sure.

carolina_gamecock · Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 49 Location: Phoenix, AZ

Okay, this season is done. Let's just accept that there is no chance of post-season play at this point. The question is where do we go from here. I am leaning toward firing the coach for the lamest play-calling and offense I have seen since Cooper left. Are they supposed to be playing a halfcourt game or is the team just mailing it in?

I hate to say it, but the best coaches in the WNBA, Van Chancellor excepted, seem to be the NBA retreads. Could we lure him here? Rudy Tomjanovich isn't doing anything since throwing up his hands in disgust after trying to coach Kobe.... Any retired NBA coaches looking for a summer job?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

I'm not actually calling for Graf's head on a plate, more like this whole franchise does things which absolutely mystify me. All the evidence I ever found about Carrie Graf's coaching abilities is positive except for this season. That's part of the mystery.

So, to deepen my bafflement, it pains me to have to agree with you that this team seems to me to come into each and every game unprepared, sometimes without personnel (like Taylor and Vodichkova, now Stepanova), but always without any idea what to do to win ball games or even seem organized on the floor.

My nightmare is this is a managment plot to draft #1 the next ten years so that by 2015 the Merc will win the WNBA Championship, when Dee's in her mid 30's and Anna's teeth are in a glass beside her bed.

rebolpuppy · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:08 pm Post subject: Coach Rebolpuppy

Well, Andy, you know I'd do it except I have exams in the spring, so I couldn't report until my exams were over, and then I go back last two weeks in August to train, but aside from that 4-5 weeks, I could spare the time if they'll pay my tuition and pay for me to stable my horses down in Phoenix.

:)

Gamecock, we could also try for Tammi Holder who just replaced Linda Hill-McDonald in Gamecockland. Or M2 for that matter. :) Come to think of it, Susan Walvius is kind of at a ... ummm .... crossroads this year, I think.

Coach S. Rebolpuppy

rebolpuppy · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 3:24 pm Post subject: Suggestions

Gamecock, for a *lot* of well-known reasons, I think the chances of getting Coach Chancellor to Phoenix are about the same as Michael Jackson's chances at an honorary knghthood.

A name did just pop into my head, though: Reggie Miller. It's not like he's never heard of the league before ... ;)

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Ah! The Demon Seed speaks! How charming!

Reggie Miller, hmmmm, oh, yes, sure, and an easy sell down here, I'm certain. :0

Truth is, as I said, I'm not by any means convinced Carrie Graf is the problem. I think her sub patterns could be improved, and she seems married to the notion of small, incremental changes which is fine in principle, just not okay if you have a 34 game season and half your starting lineup is off actually earning decent money playing in Smolensk or Dubai.

I think it's the offensive plan, which may be designed around Dee's game, and which is kind of stifling to everyone else.

Btw, if we want Shereka to play point, maybe the better idea, because SW plays big, would be to go and get Erika Valek and then the learning curve for Reek at least, would be short? Eddie Curry? Wink? Hell, throw a few live rats in her cage, maybe we could get Debbie Black out of retirement.

(I already publicly begged to get Tamara Moore back, so I'm not going to do that again.)

I'm beginning to sense now there's more wrong than just inside defense. Ayana Walker, anyone? Pup, she any good?

Talking of Van, Houston's - what, in third? - and last night they started Dalma Ivanyi at small forward. (!!) Coach, you don't get enough money.

PA71 · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

I asked in a different topic if there was a player coming out of collage that seth wanted to draft #1. The same thing was done the year that dt came out of school. It's very sad. Dt looks so beat, dejected, tired of fighting and resigned to the fact that this is a franchise in big trouble. I'm sure some where along the line everyone has noticed that when the franchise took it's down turn was when CM left and satin seth took the gm spot. I know, beating a dead horse. seth needs to be fired and a real gm hired.
I to am baffeled with carrie graf. I to thought she was better than this. And maybe she is, but is getting interference from somewhere.
There is still one more ego problem left on the team and that could be another obstacle.

at least we aren't the worst in the league. but if seth wants the #1 pick next year, we have to keep losing.

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Quote: There is still one more ego problem left on the team and that could be another obstacle.

How be you fill in the blank for me on that one, please? :) (If we're down to only one, that can't be all bad, can it?)

PA71 · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

aren't going to like it but it's ad.
and dalma plays for sass

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

It's not particularly germane whether I like it or not, actually. I was on record last spring and this I'd like to see her traded, partly because I wasn't sold on the DT plan and I agree with you - this is a badly run franchise, which means I don't envy poor Diana, Penny or anyone else either.

Nonetheless, Anna's here, I'm a fan of hers and I'd rather see her play on a winning team, and if that can be arranged here, that's fine by me.

Thanks for correcting me. Dalma's playing - I guess - for Coach Hughes & Coach Agler then.

PA71 · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 28

thanks andypanda, thats the first pleasant exchange i have had in this forum. good chatting with you.

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Well, most folks here have gone through years of agony with this franchise, it seems. Sometimes things get testy. Just keep saying what you think as best you can and you'll find some decent folks here. I have, anyway.

Me, as I guess you know, I'm more of a player follower than a team fan, and not just Anna, either, and not just basketball. A lot of folks on here breathe the Mercury, and once they realize you respect that, you'll have better experiences, I think.

My wish for the loyal Merc fans that I have come to know, is that the Merc management showed them the same kind of respect they deserve.

Thank you, though. That was a nice thing to say. :) As we say in AA, "keep coming back, it gets better."

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

The question I have is "what's the difference from last year'? Last year, you could see it in the first game, they came out as a team, there was a sense of unity, comfortableness on court with each other. Its not here this year. What was the difference last year - Nicki McCray doing the 'team thing' with everyone, Brian Agler, Lisa as a coach Moore working the point. The egos were there last year - Penny has one, Anna has one, Diana has one - actually all the players had better have 'strong' egos to be successful at this level. Strong ego should be confidence in your shot, in your ability. While the big 3 aren't showing that consistently this year, they seem so disheartened - every week. I agree with Andy that it seems with each game their play deteriorates.

I'm a fan of Graf's but not the way the team is going. There is too much talent on this team to be this bad.

Something needs to change - but what exactly?

rebolpuppy · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 4:44 pm Post subject: not me, tho

cuz ah am a wikkid evall persin, an i wanna see andy coche (sp?) the mirc an run up an doun da sidelinez screemin at sally bell and june 'what infraction? i didn't see princess satan commit any infraction!' courteau and she kin bite dere anklez and yel at dem reel gud and she wont get no teknikal cuz sheez so short dey woan eeven seer.

andi lukz lak mugzee bogez, all 5'3 and wotnot.

rebolpuppy · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 5:10 pm Post subject: Time to trade?

Having worked off my inner child for the day, and I agree with oddball that all these players have strong egos, and better have them to surivive in this league, they'd better have something else, too, and that's enough adult in them to overcome differences, or someone has to step in - Seth, I guess - and make a deal.

The problem is how to not let the player get 'tainted' before you trade them. This is starting to look like a 'stigma' season, like you wear a cap that says "Merc '05" and you're like Demi Moore in The Scarlet Letter.

The trade we (Andy & I) wanted last year - because it was discussed a little either here or on Kate's board, I forget which, involved DeMya Walker & Anna DeForge, because Coach Whisenant was apparently interested in Anna. Life changes of course, and he finally gave up on Chantelle Anderson and DeMya's been stepping up.

If I look at it from a *team* perspective, I'm not so crazy about trading Anna. In 2003, she staked her claim on this team, and played her guts out and there were some inspiring performances, and games she stepped up into bigtime and they fell a few precious points shy. By the end of the year, without an 'official' ceremony, she *was* the leader of the Merc by acclaimation.

Last year came the crowning of the new princess of Phoenix. Lisa Harrison was retired, and the season was about melding the Big Three Together. At the beginning of this season, the conclusion was that 2004 showed that the Big Three just needed a good interior defense, and some offense out of the post, and all would be playoff bound in Phoenix.

It ain't so, Joe. Fire Graf? I doubt it would make much difference unless they sat Michelle Timms down on the bench and said "Call it like it is, we'll back you up.", let her say the problem is __________, trade her and march on. I'd keep Graf. She isn't the problem. I'd let Timms manage inside the dressing room.

My *guess*? Anna's proven how strong she is to make it back to this level. She leads naturally and without effort. She knows the difference between being a cheerleader and being a leader because she's the latter. Diana Taurasi is 23 or so and can't adjust to losing, and can't or won't make the effort it takes to set the example for the rest of the team to follow. I'm 18, and Diana, while a great player, sure isn't ready to be my role model yet.

What *should* happen, imo? Maybe someone will actually read this crap and tell Diana she hasn't made her bones at this level yet. She can relax. Get her some rest and let Shereka carry some more weight. Let Anna control the floor. Somebody has it on their tagline: "She knows what to do with it."

If they did that, I think they'd find out Dee is a 2, turnovers would drop, and the right player would get the ball at the right time more often. By the end of the year, she could lead the league in scoring, and no, the season isn't over yet.

Am I bashing Diana? If you're 2, you probably think so. If you're older, you probably understand it would take some heat off her, let her get in shape and rested, and let her have some fun playing, which will probably do more for team chemistry than Prozac.

How do you tell if I'm bashing Diana? I'll tell you: this is me bashing Diana, right here in this paragraph. It's just my opinion. Take the rebolpuppy test of team leadership and watch Anna & Dee on the floor. Determine for yourself who is trying to hit the open woman, and who is trying for either the last minute grandstand clock-beating shot or perfect one-time pass just in time for the resounding applause. Ask yourself, without prejudice, who is *trying* to make her teammates better. Why are we asking why nobody runs without the ball? Why are we asking why this team can't play team basketball?

<end Taurasi bash>

What *will* happen? Either Anna will get traded -- please God let it be Connecticut or Detroit -- or nothing.

With Phoenix, the default is always nothing, and that - make no mistake - *is* a Seth bash.

For the record, my favorite player is Ruth Riley, and even I don't think she should be starting in the All Star game. I think Margo Dydek does.

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

Amen, Rebolpuppy! I just hope Anna doesn't get traded. I'd like to see the team sit down with each other and work "this" out...... Diana does need to understand that all those that support Anna do so because she's earned it. Diana needs to earn her place at this level and won't for several years - a good rookie year does not a ball player make.......

rebolpuppy · Posted: Sun Jul 03, 2005 6:18 pm Post subject: Wow!

Thank you, thank you, thank you! Wow! I can't believe you actually read and understood what I wrote!

I'm sure you'll understand this, too, then. I believe Diana *will* be a great player if things unfold like this. She won at UConn, she won at the Olympics, she won personal awards, and Lord knows she deserves them. Losing must be unimaginable after those fairy tale years!

When life gives you a smack upside the head, sometimes you need another one to get over the shock. Let's hope this was it.

I wish her nothing but the best, and I hope - like Andy says above - that she has those years here, and the the Merc go, as a team, with Dee and Anna, Shereka, the wonderful Kamila, Kayte - God! Wouldn't that be great? - and Penny, who plays basketball the way I play soccer! (I get carded a lot!):) and win a championship or two, or three, under Coach Graf & Staff.

Kudos, oddball!! :)

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Gee, I feel like the woman in the "Poltergeist" movies who keeps saying "This house is clean. My work here is done!"

Well done, Suze, you Hellspawn. The real fairy tale that would "make Dee's bones" would be to turn around this season.

If folks scream at you, just remember this: you're the only one in sight who's got a plan.

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

Rebolpuppy - you expressed yourself very well.... both posts... loved your rant! :lol:

I absolutely agree that Diana has the potential to be a great player. frankly, I think she has shown maturity beyond her years with all the expectations placed on her, with all the publicity and fans surrounding her..... few other players in any sport could handle that with the graciousness and presence that Diana has... but.... on the court, she's a 2nd yr player with players who have years more experience than she does.

our potential is huge..... it should actually be the big '4' - DT, AD, PT and KV... with Gwen (when she heals) Ashley or Sandora or Maria (if she ever comes back after this yr)...... but I also think that behind the starters should be 'like' players... with 13 players on the roster there should be more than 2 guards.......I can't help but think that this has contributed to this years frustration

There's a really 'bad' saying 'out there' - Losing builds character....... I think we have enough character!!!

:D - Here's to the Merc!!!!

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1687 Location: Central Phoenix

The point guard issue is more complex. The Big Three, with no "true" point guard worked last year; it isn't working this year.

Moore, Cross, Valek, etc. are NOT starters. There is a reason why they aren't still playing in the league, even as backups.

Anna's contract is up after this year. She is going to want the max. She has not demonstrated she is deserving of the max. Personally, I would rather us make a run at a big point guard and offer her the max (e.g., Teasley), then moving Diana to the shooting guard position.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 302

I want to make this clear, I'm not yelling at you..I'm just stating my opinon and my observations.

I agree, anna did earn her way to being the leader of the Mercury in 03', and in the way that she did it, she is an amazing Role model for that. However, Diana earned her way as the new leader last year. With help, she lead her team to a .500 season.

The problem is that Anna hasn't shown the leadership this year, she has shown that she wants to be the star, and/or the scorer. (But I'll get to that later.)

While Diana, has shown that she is capable of beign the leader, starting with taking responsibility for the Merc's poor record. I understand that Anna has a lot of supporters, and I hope so because she has an amazing comeback story, and is an amazing role model. However, Diana has more than earned her right to be the leader of this team. (And heck, I'd love to have her in Connecticut..sorry, this was in reference to trading Anna to Connecticut, I would like seeing her in Connecitcut..I just happened to put this sentence in the wrong spot.) And I think Anna needs to figure that out.

I also agree that Diana should be playing the 2. The Lynx don't play Katie at the 1, because she isn't a 1, and the Mercury should not do that to Diana. It would be benificial to the Merc, to find a solid ball handler. I'll use Uconn as an example, Maria Conlon was the point guard at Connecticut. No, she wasn't a star, but she was solid, she got the job done (and I would have given anything to have her back at Uconn last year..but that's another thing all together.) This allowed Diana to play her natural position, and she created natuarally. Maybe you aren't as aware of Diana's game as I am, but that is one of Diana's strengths, creating and making her teammates better. That's why she has three national championships. But she does that so much more efficently at the 2.
When she tries to play the Point, two things tend to happen (Both at Uconn, and the Mercury)
1. She tries too hard to make things hapen. She gets it stuck in her head, that her primary purpose on the court is to make her teammates better.
2. The other players stand around and watch. I don't know why players stand around and watch, but they do.
These two things often result in a turnover, becasue Diana passes to the other team (partially her fault for trying to hard..no Diana, you can not pass the ball through Lisa Leslie :D And partially the rest of the team's fault, for not moving on offense..)
All and all, it works out better if Diana can create as a 2, with a solid point guard..to help make plays, and to take care of the ball.

rebolpuppy wrote:
How do you tell if I'm bashing Diana? I'll tell you: this is me bashing Diana, right here in this paragraph. It's just my opinion. Take the rebolpuppy test of team leadership and watch Anna & Dee on the floor. Determine for yourself who is trying to hit the open woman, and who is trying for either the last minute grandstand clock-beating shot or perfect one-time pass just in time for the resounding applause. Ask yourself, without prejudice, who is *trying* to make her teammates better. Why are we asking why nobody runs without the ball? Why are we asking why this team can't play team basketball?

<end Taurasi bash>

Ahh, the Taurasi bash. I want to make it clear, that I am not bashing Anna, just observing..and I'm being unbiased..

I've already stated that Diana does try and do too much. However, in terms of *trying* to make her teammates better, that without question, goes to Diana. (Keyword *trying*) She's trying hard, sometimes maybe too hard, and IMO her teammates aren't helping out. She never hesitates to pass to the open player, and often she'll pass, even when the player is not open (that goes back to the trying to hard thing..) Yes, Diana is flashy, but her only goal, from what I've seen has been trying to make her teammates better, and trying to win. She plays flashy, that's just her..

Anna, however, is a scorer. That is what she bring to the team, that is her strength. Anna is more likely to take a terrible shot, than pass to an open player..(For some reason the open player almost always seems to be Penny..) I don't remember her being like that last year, but she's doing it this year.

There could be a couple of reasons for this. One, she still wants the Mercury to be just her team, she wants to be the primary scorer, or she's just used to having to do it all herself, so passing isn't her first instinct. However, when watching the Merc, and this feeling has gotten stronger and stronger since the first game I saw..until now..Anna is not on the same page as the rest of the Merc. (Although it wasn't quite so obvious during the Spark game..maybe not having Plennette helped) It's like watching Kamilla Diana Penny and Arob + Anna vs. the other team. I don't know why it's like that..but there are some chemistry issues.

Why are we asking why this team can't play team basketball? Because the second Deforge has the ball, it becomes a game of one on one. This isn't neccessarily bad (especially when she's hot). I say the same thing about her as I did about Barbra Turner.."once you give her the ball, you ain't gettin' it back"
Anna is a scorer, and heaven know the Mercury needs more offense, so hopefully if Anna isn't going to be traded..she starts making some shots..And I think she can be an emotional leader..and maybe help Diana out with the whole losing thing, but she needs to get on the same page as the team. And overall Anna isn't going to get the ball in the right players hands, (Unless she happends to be hot) that isn't a strength of hers, so having her be the leader on the floor, would only hurt the team.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1687 Location: Central Phoenix

Getting back to my point...

Anna does not deserve a max contract. Plus, we need more athleticism in the backcourt. Right now, we need a true slasher (Penny can do it, but we need more of an uber-athlete). Plus, we need Diana to be a playmaker at the 2, not running the offense from the 1.

Hence...a max offer to Nikki Teasley in the offseason. She is a true point guard, with an excellent crossover. While her time in LA has been launching threes this year, she used to slash and drive much more. Plus, she would take a lot of pressure off Diana and hopefully allow Phoenix not to go through the offensive droughts that have plagued us this season.

dionneza11 · Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 28 Location: houston,tx

is evrybody upset of the losing skid the mercs are in?

rebolpuppy · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 7:25 am Post subject: Wel, yes.

Wow! Great thread. At least we're talking to the point even if we don't all agree. Andy will no doubt be pleased and surprised when she gets up at about noon. :)

So, yes, dionnea11, I'd say we're kind of upset at the Merc being 3-11.

To Kitkat and Cam, I basically agree with the comments about Anna. Her contract is up, she'll probably want the max, and her play this year doesn't warrant it. *Why* that's happening is another matter, imo, and I've kind of made all the points I wanted to make above.

A couple of things though, speaking directly to both your comments.

Kitkat, we're just at a point of disagreement about what we see, or think we see, as these games unfold. I respect your opinion, and you repect mine. Either way, someone's going to have to solve the problem, and I *do* think there's a question about whether team managment has the will to make those decisions and act on them, although how to trade Anna is a bit of a puzzle, so I guess you sit her down, which might solve our disagreement.

Cam, if I wasn't clear, sorry about that re Valek, et al. One thing that did happen when Moore came off the bench is she could sub at the 1, 2 or 3. I suggested Valek because it sure looked like they were using Wright at point on Saturday, and maybe subbing them together might have been a solution. I do appreciate your point about none of them being starters, I was looking more towards bringing them off the bench.

As far as Teasley goes, signing her makes a lot of sense if the Merc swap her spot on the roster for Anna's. Unfortunately, in that swap you *lose* athleticism, imo. She could be had though, I'm sure, as she's been sort of making an effort when she feels like it the last two years, I think. Not what Bibby likes, I would guess. She is however, a pure point.

The slasher comment is okay by me, but it seems to me Anna *can* do that just fine except there doesn't seem to be anything about actually doing that in the playbook.

Anyway, I've had more than my fair share of the space here, and thanks to both of you for responding on point and without rancor. As PA71 says up above, that's new - and welcome - for this board when it actually focuses on basketball.

Hoopslady · Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 127 Location: Illinois

Cam quote: Quote: SG is the EASIEST position to fill in the league. That is a fact. Your comments are not only stupid, they fail to have ANY relevance, considering Diana is our point guard.

I am glad to see that you now know that Diana is not a "true" point guard

This season has been a big surprise, but I think not enough was done in the off season, look at what Sac did and how little the Merc did.

I am interested in just why what worked last year with the Big Three isn't working this year?
Please rememeber the line about attitude/ego is not a reason. Just what has happened?

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:34 am Post subject:

Hoopslady wrote: I am interested in just why what worked last year with the Big Three isn't working this year?

I'm sure Carrie would like to know the answer as well.

My theory is that the slump actually started last season, and is caused by teams waking up to our game plan and adjusting accordingly.
We simply don't have the flexibility to adjust.

Consider this; in 2004 we lost 4 of our last 5 games to bomb disappointingly out of the playoff race.
Prior to those 5 games, we beat LA in a game at home when they were missing Milton-Jones, Dixon and Mabika, and also scraped past Seattle at home when they were missing LJ.
i.e. both of those were also quite loseable had our opponents' rosters not been crippled.

So going back to the end of '04 - when teams started taking us seriously for the first time in years - we are 4-15 in our last 19 games.

What ever it is that teams are doing to stifle us, we need to find a way to counter. Chances are that will require both a well-thought out game plan and loads of hard work.
Let's hope our team is up to it.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1687 Location: Central Phoenix

Quote: I am glad to see that you now know that Diana is not a "true" point guard

When did I say she was? She was OUR point guard, in that she was playing the point. That does not make her a TRUE point guard. Big difference!!!

Quote: This season has been a big surprise, but I think not enough was done in the off season, look at what Sac did and how little the Merc did.

Sacto made two trades...one starter, one backup. Your statement assumes that teams were willing to trade with Phoenix...and wanted what Phoenix was offering.

And Phoenix signed Vodichkova, brought Maria back, and signed Snell!

So many people on this board were so opposed to trading Anna...yet some of the same people now claim we should have done more in the offseason. You can't have it both ways.

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

if we trade Anna and then sign Teasley we have the same problem we have right now - 2 guards - 11 forwards/center. We're not accomplishing anything because 2 guards on a team is rather 'slim' and puts too much pressure on them. Yes.... other players can 'play' guard, but we have a great history of playing people out of position and it not working..... wait.... this season too........ frankly, I'd like to see 2 more guards.... we'd have 4 then....may be someone to truly play point and back-up the starters. My opposition to trading Anna (other than I like her as a player) is that we need to add, not delete, not stay even.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 302

But Teasley is a Point guard..It would not be as big of a problem if we had Taurasi at shooting guard, and an actual point guard..but the problem is, Anna is a 2 as well.

We also have Snell and Shereka..who have both shown that they are capapble of playing in this league..

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1687 Location: Central Phoenix

kitkat310 wrote: But Teasley is a Point guard..It would not be as big of a problem if we had Taurasi at shooting guard, and an actual point guard..but the problem is, Anna is a 2 as well.

We also have Snell and Shereka..who have both shown that they are capapble of playing in this league..

Agreed. Teasley and Taurasi in the backcourt, Shereka and Snell off the bench. Penny at the 3, with Angelina Williams backing her up. With Vodichkova, Gwen Jackson, and two other post players (e.g., Robinson), we can save one spot for a backup point guard, if we want...

hellcat · Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:42 pm Post subject:

Well I've made my mind up, vote Cam head of recruiting. 8)

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 230

But Cam, that line up isn't working right now. Why would it work with just the addition of someone like Teasley? I know Anna and Diana are both 2's, but why not bring in a point and keep AD and DT. It is just a simple economic issue?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

My guess is if the disharmony we see on the floor is because DT & AD can't coexist now, there's probably no reason to expect either to be a sub for the other.

If there's not room in the clubhouse now, there certainly won't be if you keep them both.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 230

Andy - I wondered if that's part of the issue now. Someone needs to step up here - if Houston can win 4 championships with 3 players who did not like each other, and LA won with strong personalities - why isn't someone standing up and leading this group toward a single purpose?

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 302

andypanda wrote: My guess is if the disharmony we see on the floor is because DT & AD can't coexist now, there's probably no reason to expect either to be a sub for the other.

If there's not room in the clubhouse now, there certainly won't be if you keep them both.

I don't think they dislike each other, and they probably don't have a problem being on a team together..However they don't have any on court chemistry, this year...But I agree, if they can't fix the problem, than there is no point to having them on the same team together..

So maybe, just becasue the three comets stars didn't like each other, they still had on court chemistry, and were able to win with that.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 230

from what I remember hearing about Houston, the chemistry came because 3 people had the same goal on the court and the coach used his southern humor or 'manner' to bring them together for the same purpose. Why would the chemistry have been so much better for us last year, when they didn't know each other?

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 302

There was a need for them to prove themselves last year..This year they expected to make the playoffs.

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Quote: I wondered if that's part of the issue now. Someone needs to step up here - if Houston can win 4 championships with 3 players who did not like each other, and LA won with strong personalities - why isn't someone standing up and leading this group toward a single purpose?

Sorry, cbibat, I was out for a couple of hours.

There are a lot of possible answers to that question, I think. A lot of it is very much reflected in this thread. I don't have any inside information by any means, and my agenda is different from most people on the board because I'm more of a player fan than a Merc fan.

I think both the league and the team 'crowned' Diana Taurasi leader when she was drafted, and the reason for that should be obvious. The league *wants* and needs her to be a star, and this has been a horribly managed franchise for the last seven years, I think.

Having said that, I made the point earlier that Anna earned her leadership role simply by leading, not by virtue of her college achievements.

There are three camps in this thread, the way I see it. There are Merc fans who would like to see Anna step up and lead, and there are Merc fans who think it's Diana's team to lead. (The third camp are people like Suze (rebolpuppy) and me, who would like to see Anna on another team altogether, so we have no real stake in the Merc issue. We knew who she was before she even got to Phoenix, and weren't surprised at all when she made the team, even though Jeff Metcalfe was.)

I think now is where we get to the issue of coaching, and I mean the entire staff. I kind of liken it to my own life where I have my own superiors, and I have my own staff. I once had a problem with two people under me and I sought out some advice, which ended up being "Either the both of you grow up and be professional, or you're both gone." It works.

The problem here is that there is no Van Chancellor to just 'manage' people in a way that puts together four consecutive Championships like Houston did. He was used to coaching people exactly like he had in Houston. He commanded enough respect that they *would* put down their differences and play together.

There's *no one* in this organization who commands that. Michelle Timms earned the respect she gets as a player. Carrie Graf earned the respect she gets as a coach, and a good one, but not here, in Australia. Julie Brase is new. Seth isn't in this equation because I think it is a coaching issue as opposed to a management issue.

So, if the consensus is that the team chemistry problem stems from a problem between DeForge and Taurasi, then the obvious answer would be let the veteran lead. The problem here is that hordes of Taurasi fans and Merc fans believe she's rightfully the leader. Both the league and team management set that up.

The obvious answer isn't always the right answer, and, were I coaching (God forbid), I'd have the basic "Sit down, shut up, get over yourselves, and learn to play together because if you think 3-11 is bad, just wait until you get to 3-31 and see if Nike still wants to sell your shoes, Dee, or if you can get a job on another WNBA team, Anna."

I don't think either woman enjoys losing, and we learned last year that they *can* play together. It's a matter of will they. Sulking doesn't help anything.

Carrie Graf & Co. have to sell them on the arcane idea of actually putting the team before self. If it can't be done, Anna will be on her way when her contract is up. There are more Merc fans than you would imagine who think that's the wrong leader to lose.

Ultimately, if you roll back to the Houston Championship years, the leader was Van Chancellor. If this team gets its act together, it'll have to be because Carrie Graf steps forward as the leader in the clubhouse, and basically just says "grow up, get fit, shut up and play ball."

So, at the end of the day, last year we comfortably had (arguably) two leaders, Anna & Dee. This year, the Merc have none.

It's time for Carrie to get hard. I think she can do that.

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 230

well stated, Andy!

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Something I forgot to say about Van. He could always take his 3 Problem Princesses and sit them down and make a valid case that they could win if they put their differences aside.

The same was true in L.A.

Carrie doesn't have that luxury. Even with Stepanova - blocks are great, but a defensive player she's not - the Merc have the celebrated Black Hole in the defensive paint where you or I could run, score inside, get fouled and hang around waiting for the long pass off the subsequent Merc turnover.

Graf can't make a case to her players that burying whatever hatchets there may be will turn this team around.