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SRingstaff · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 18 Location: Phoenix, Az

Quote: When WNBA Players Attack: WNBA'er Article Vs. Me in Arizona Republic

By Debbie Schlussel

The she-males in the WNBA sideshow just can't take it. First, I received a "creative" F-U e-mail from Phoenix Mercury Assistant Head Coach (Lute Olson's Granddaughter) Julie Brase. Now, it is Mercury player Kayte Christensen, who is so bothered by my anti-WNBA column, she's written an anti-Debbie-Schlussel-anti-WNBA column in the Arizona Republic.

But apparently Christensen needs to go back to school to learn how to read. She claims that I take "credit away from a female trying to succeed in a man's world." I do? Where? In my anti-WNBA column, I give credit for Danica Patrick for doing exactly that. How many WNBA players play against men? Well, that may be a trick question, because there actually may be a lot of male WNBA players--based on appearance, anyway. But I refer to real men in my column and point out that the WNBA players do NOT compete against men, but whine for not getting equal pay, respect, attention, ratings, ticket sales, endorsements, yadda, yadda, yadda. If they wanted to succeed "in a man's world," WNBA players would try-out for the NBA and not have their own league.

Christensen also defends her teammate Anna DeForge, who had a lesbian relationship with her coach in exchange for more playing time, as a great role model for America's kids. Sleeping with the boss to get ahead--great role model, Kayte. Puh-leeze.

Christensen is mad that women in sports are judged by looks when men are judged only on performance. That's not really true--a female sports columnist wrote about her lust for LA Dodger Shawn Green's "jewels" in the locker room, and Major League Baseball player Gabe Kapler was regularly praised for his muscular physique, more often than his baseball swing. But even when it is true, get a clue. As I, again, wrote in my column, sports is showbiz. Looks count. In men's sports, men want to be them, and women want to date (euphemism) them. In women's sports, unless you look like Anna Kournikova or Danica Patrick, there won't be that dynamic--unless you count the lesbian audience, and you can't build a sports league on that minute customer base. Sorry, Kayte.

Finally, Christensen claims that David Stern and the NBA are still supporting the WNBA after 8 money-hemorrhaging seasons because they want the league "to succeed in all realms, not just financially." As in any business, there is only one measure of success in sports--the bottom line. If they want to be equal to the men, why do they demand a different yardstick to measure them?

Christensen joins another critic of my WNBA column, my cousin and aspiring teen columnist, Mallory Greitzer, who also critiqued the column in the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle. Mallory's was far better than Kayte's, but Kayte and Mallory, thanks for spelling my name right.

Posted by Debbie at June 22, 2005 09:07 PM

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

Debbie used every single quote out of context, her response was a joke..

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

I admit I started to read it, but after the first sentence, my retinas started to get seared by the hate. Again - why even bother to post her no-doubt stunningly bigoted and well-coached (and well sponsored!) vitriole - the thought and stench of her and her screed makes me want to toss a technicolor spit.

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Debbie's probably not up on the latest exchange between Danica Patrick and the male-dominated world of auto racing.

Formula 1 chief (Sir) - no, really - Bernie Ecclestone called Patrick on the phone because she'd been over to Europe to check out an F1 race, and rumors abound she may yet become the first woman in F1.

Bernie, like Debbie Does Anything To Get Press Time - and we shouldn't be helping her with threads like this, oh junior reporter, cub scout Jimmy Olsen, SRingstaff person - told Danica he's used to women "barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen" or something very like that, and Danica came away from the conversation convinced she'd been talking to a batty old man.

SRingstaff, next time you talk to Schlussel, tell her Dani lives in Indianapolis and thinks Tamika Catchings can play ball pretty well.

SRingstaff · Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 18 Location: Phoenix, Az

Sorry I just thought people would like to see it. :oops: Oh and my name is Sharon btw and I'm only 17. I usually just read the board I hardly post

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Hi, Sharon, my name is Andy (Andrea)

Schlussel's annual WNBA bashing rekindles issues that were put to rest long ago. She does it just to get exposure for herself, and because she just seems to be mean spirited. She is a loyal minion of the Conservative right, a bigot, but most of all, she seeks a forum.

Every time an URL to her puerile crap gets posted, more and more people get to read the trash she writes. I sense I'm a minority on this board, but I also have the right to express my own opinion that this board is an inappropriate place to post *anything* by Debbie Schlussel. It's a WNBA board, there are, no doubt, lesbian players, and lesbian relationships in the league.

Debbie Schlussel would like to see the WNBA out of business and lesbians, gays and God knows who else cast into the fires of hell.

She's not a journalist, she's a sanctimonious propagandist. That's not your fault.

So, go ye hence and be a fine journalist, but maybe model yourself after Woodward & Bernstien rather than Debbie Schlussel. That way, at least you should still be able to go to a WNBA game. :)

My comments weren't to embarrass you, just to kind of put a damper on this issue, because some of us would just like to see the Merc win some games this year and have some fun.

Lord knows we don't want to rake up more crap from five years ago.

We're good, Sharon. Good luck with your career. :)

dionneza11 · Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 28 Location: houston,tx

that was not cool!!!i feel lyk i wana punch her in the face!!!!

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1560 Location: Phoenix

dionne honey, you'd have to get in line! Debbies been bashing the WNBa for ages now, and it's become almost funny, if it weren't so patently pathetic!

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

Kayte should feel pretty satisfied with this...During Debate, my team knew that we had won, when the opposing side started taking our quotes out of context, and when they started talking around what we actually said. As much as it frustrated us, (because it felt like the other side was just not listening) In the back of our minds, we knew we had won.

What Debbie did in her "response" was just what the other side would occassionally do. Debbie knows her arguments were, at best, crappy (although she'll never admit it.) which is why she didn't truly respond.

Kelley · Joined: 16 Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Location: Atlanta, GA

I've read Debbie's drivel in the past. It was so filled with hate and closed mindedness that I did the only reasonable thing. I considered the source and forgot about it. It popped up here, so I went and took a look. Yup, same old drivel.

What Debbie and her ilk fail to understand is that the fans go the game to watch basketball. Athletic prowess is on display, not the personal lives of the players. The WNBA is filled with professional athletes, not runway models. (Though a few of them could make a career out of that if they wanted.)

When the NBA put together the business plan for the WNBA, it included a significant allowance for financial loss. If I recall correctly, the original business plan did not call for the league to break even until the 15 year mark.

One of the great things about the WNBA, as compared to the NBA, is that the players are more accessible. I’ve met and talked with many of the players and coaches. That’s part of why I love the team so much. I have a connection with them that you just don’t get with the men. The Mercury are MY team. Cooper took the time to speak with me every time she saw me. Jen Gillom, encouraged my daughter to play hard and have fun on the first day that she signed up to play basketball at the YMCA. I scored my first two points ever in a real game with coaches, ref’s, and time clocks at a Mercury Fantasy Camp. Swish. 8) I still remember that sound. (mb, thanks for the assist…)

Debbie Schlussel can bit me.

Kelley

At my age, I shouldn’t be surprised at the bigotry still around, but I can always hope.

MercuryBoFan · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 251 Location: Glendale

When the Mercury are on top of their game they are the BEST SHOW IN THE DESERT !!!

For many years, I have supported the Mercury over the Suns because of the entertainment, the hard work and play of the Mighty Mercury. Finally, the Suns, this season, matched that intensity.

I am a male fan and have been following the Mercury since they beat LA for the Western Conference Finals I believe in 98. Woman's basketball is fun to watch and especially easy on the wallet.

Furthermore, I rather have the LESBIANS attend the games because they are more passionate than the CORPORATE morons who just want to be seen in the high $$$ seats and really don't give a darn about the game at all.

Kudos, to the WNBA, Phoenix Mercury and Phoenix Suns. If the Phoenix Mercury ever leave town I will never support a PHX team again !

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

Thanks for the details, MercuryBo. I was confused as to if you were a serious supporter or someone who likes to cause a fuss just 'cause.

Now I know - you love the Mercury for the same reasons I do. Real athletes with real dedication not driven by huge dollars, and fans who attend because they are real fans, not "look at me, I can afford these really over-priced seats and you can't - aren't I cool?" fans.

I got it. I dig it! Thanks.

MercuryBoFan · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 251 Location: Glendale

No Problem :lol: I love the Mercury a whole bunch and even take some heat for doing so but these ladies now and in the past have been great players to watch and I respect hard work.

Maybe, because I'm a hard worker myself :-)

Anyways, Go Mercury !!!

mb · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:42 pm Post subject:

Kelley, you are most welcome!

MercuryBoFan, try being the only male at fantasy camp, and hetero as well.

Your pessimism is wearing, yet your frustration is understandable and certainly tempered due to your explaination of your fandom.

Quote: I am a male fan and have been following the Mercury since they beat LA for the Western Conference Finals I believe in 98. Woman's basketball is fun to watch and especially easy on the wallet.

Furthermore, I rather have the LESBIANS attend the games because they are more passionate than the CORPORATE morons who just want to be seen in the high $$$ seats and really don't give a darn about the game at all.

Kudos, the above sounds somewhat like something I'd write.

MercuryBoFan · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 251 Location: Glendale

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:31 am Post subject:

mb wrote: Kudos, the above sounds somewhat like something I'd write.
No, THIS sounds like something you'd write:
Quote: Admiral is a F'ing idiot.
:lol: :lol:

The bar has been set, MercuryBoFan :D

mb · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject:

ROFLMAO! :!: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

carolina_gamecock · Joined: 05 Jan 2003 Posts: 49 Location: Phoenix, AZ

I really like the Mercury too, but I would definitely attend more games if their were more families and less "family".

Players sleeping with coaches is something new to sports in general. Those sorts of stories really hurt the league.

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:41 am Post subject:

carolina_gamecock wrote: Players sleeping with coaches is something new to sports in general.

[Inappropriate, tongue-slightly-in-cheek comment]
Possibly because no team in the history of sports is as babe-tacular as the Phoenix Mercury. Unprofessional as it may seem, these coaches are only human.
[/Inappropriate, tongue-slightly-in-cheek comment]

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1041 Location: Phoenix AZ

carolina_gamecock wrote: I really like the Mercury too, but I would definitely attend more games if their were more families and less "family".

Players sleeping with coaches is something new to sports in general. Those sorts of stories really hurt the league.
Every empty arena seat "hurts the league" especially fair weather fans who could support their team every home game, but choose not to based on very old rumors that aren't even true today. A heart should be open to all kinds of family. If children are raised with an open heart, they will become unbiased adults. I really wish you'd appreciate the game for what it is, regardless of who is in the audience. Join us post game at Majerle's sometime. We're a very diverse & friendly group :D

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1560 Location: Phoenix

I really like the Mercury too, but I would definitely attend more games if their were more families and less "family".

Players sleeping with coaches is something new to sports in general. Those sorts of stories really hurt the league.

We are all family, gay or staright :!:

Now how many games have you been to, and have you had bad experiences?

and as to players getting together with coaches, LOL, do you think it hurt Jack Welsh, GE CEO when he slept with Suzy whats her name the journalist, well besides the divorece part, he went on to make another small fortune writing a book with Suzy and married her and he still getting a large sum for speaking engagements, so some folks do still keep open minds?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Quote: Players sleeping with coaches is something new to sports in general. Those sorts of stories really hurt the league.

Why something sexual gets special status in this day and age is completely beyond me.

The issue is ethics, isn't it? If it's unethical for a coach & player to sleep together, in my book it's a heck of a lot more unethical for almost any of the things which have been documented in the media about every sport.

Steroid abuse in the NFL was discussed 30 years back when Chip Oliver quit the Raiders, later in Tim Greene's excellent book. Anyone want to buy a Jason Giambi training shoe? How about if your son grew up to be an NHL player, or is greed and stupidity in the face of simple economics ethical? Any Suns fans out there who want to revisit the days when the franchise was literally fuelled by white powder?

Hmmm, Paul Hornung (NFL, gambling), several NHL players whose names escape my recollection, but one was Marty McSorley, for excessive and wilful violence, one last year for vehicular manslaughter while drunk ( I think, please correct me if I'm wrong), Pete Rose, Denny McLain, and the recent steroid All-Star team - an *entire* sport built on a lie, to Bud Selig's everlasting disgrace - and the NBA days of point-shaving - it's still the most obvious and easy gambling sport to 'fix'. It kept Connie Hawkins, one of those *least* guilty, in the old ABA for years before he came to Phoenix.

Sleeping with a coach may be new, but it's a lot less odious to me than any of the above.

At least sex, love & romance are basic human needs. I fell in love with someone I worked with once. That's unethical, so I'm told, although that particular lab was like a rabbit warren.

I just got the visuals on how to get team harmony back for the Merc. Just put about 4 California Queen (of course, right?) size beds together and call a players' meeting. No? Bad plan? Dang! I'll get it right one of these days. ;)

Here's the *real* news on that plan - I have no idea how many players and staff would show up. We make a *lot* of erroneous assumptions based on stereotypes. The common denominator among WNBA players is skill at basketball, not sexual preference. That's why they put hoops up in schoolyards instead of having glory holes in the school washrooms.

That's why my family has trouble getting tickets for Merc games over the phone. My straight male partner has to sit in the straight manly-man section, my woman has to sit with the lesbians, but all us bi-femme chicks have to sit on the stairs in between, people spilling food and drinks all over us, and everybody thinks that's okay because I'm just greedy.

All kidding aside, there's enough death in the world, enough prejudice, just cling to the folks you love, take in a ball game and find out *everybody* in America West just loves basketball, and that's why we're there.

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Just so we're clear, there are *no* similarities between me and the fictional character of Jenny Shecter.

I know this because every time I see her I keep saying "I'm not like that, am I?" and nobody says "yes".

J says I need to correct a mistake from my post above. There never was a proven incident of NBA gambling. The point-shaving scandals took place in college, and the NBA ruled those *implicated* in the scandal were not eligible to be drafted.

Fwiw, J also says that the smart money still thinks the famous 'disappearance' from basketball by a major star was arranged to avoid a full-blown NBA gambling scandal involving said major star betting on his own team.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

In the games I've gone to (I went to the Mystics vs. Sun, and Lynx vs. Sun..it takes a lot to convince My dad to go..I personally wanted to see Alana play in person, but I convinced my dad to go because of the playoffs, and..well..it was pretty easy to convince my dad to go see Svet, being she was his favorite player before Diana.) But there was absolutely nothing there, that showcased any "family." I'm sure there were same-sex couples there, but newsflash, there are same sex couples everywhere...Why should you not do something you enjoy, because someone else lives their life differently than you?

Obviously you wouldn't want to take your kids to a massive PDA thing, gay or straight, but, at least in Connecticut, it's not like that. It was a lot of fun, and maybe you might want to try it, before you make too many judgements.

rebolpuppy · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:20 pm Post subject: Cutting your options.

Yeah, if that's the determinant for going to WNBA games, then you kind of have to apply the same standards and stereoptypes globally and avoid going to live theatre, ballet, opera, movies, eating in most restaurants, going to concerts, and at some point we really start having to question the homo-erotic demographics of watching the well-oiled steroid-ragers from the WW-whatever, don't we?

Add that to buying designer fashions and watching narcisso-vision, me-too tv, and your life kind of resolves down to BBQ & NASCAR and wrestling with what happened to Newt Gingrich's sister and Dick Chaney's daughter, the old "Where did Republicanism go wrong?" question.

That'll keep Alzheimer's at bay for about an hour.

And speaking of Alzheimer's, I thought you were gone from here, AP, or did the "Gay Nazis" finally disappear?

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Dunno about disappearing, but they stopped sending me mail?

You going to Live8?

rebolpuppy · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 5:42 pm Post subject: Live 8

Not me, I stayed in Reston. It's hotter up in Canada than it is here.

See you Saturday, and Happy Canada Day tomorrow, you Closet Canadian! :)

Luv
S.

mb · Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:52 pm Post subject:

Quote: ...The common denominator among WNBA players is skill at basketball, not sexual preference. That's why they put hoops up in schoolyards instead of having glory holes in the school washrooms.

The post from which the above excerpt was taken was pure genius, Andy!

PLEASE, introduce yourself whenever you are near. You too, rebol!

Quote: Yeah, if that's the determinant for going to WNBA games, then you kind of have to apply the same standards and stereoptypes globally and avoid going to live theatre, ballet, opera, movies, eating in most restaurants, going to concerts, and at some point we really start having to question the homo-erotic demographics of watching the well-oiled steroid-ragers from the WW-whatever, don't we?

Add that to buying designer fashions and watching narcisso-vision, me-too tv, and your life kind of resolves down to BBQ & NASCAR and wrestling with what happened to Newt Gingrich's sister and Dick Chaney's daughter, the old "Where did Republicanism go wrong?" question.

BRILLIANT!

There's family other than "family" at WNBA games? :shock:

"This 'lesbian' may go back in the closet", says the hetero male fan.
:twisted: :? :twisted:

rebolpuppy · Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 11:43 am Post subject: Of course ...

Yeah, Andy's *way* out there smart, and thanks for the kind words about my post, too. Since the last election, she's been on this kick it's about time liberals got *angry*, not Dean cartoon, shrill angry, but "we don't like red state people at all" angry. She gets up on her horse a lot, but we love her anyway. Besides, she has a nice butt.

As for you, the plan is for Andy and I to come out and meet Gia and 1Carol, have dinner, and take in a game, but Andy has an unstable schedule for the next two weeks, which is a shame because of the big homestand.

You were already in our plans, too. I guess Andy figured she'd *finally* make up her mind about sexual preference for the night and sit with you over in the straight section. :)

It would be kind of nice to meet everybody, actually. :) See you soon, M**e! oxoxo

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

Quote: She gets up on her horse a lot

OMG! I have a horse? Why didn't someone tell me? It must be starving, poor thing ... :)

The Pup called and said you were online, M. Nice of you to say "Hi!", amongst other things. :)

My sked looks like it'll be August before I can get down there. :( Suze can come anytime. (Nice to be young, isn't it?) I think she'd like to see Ruthie on Aug. 16th. I'd prefer to take a few days off and see the Lynx on the 3rd, the Comets on the Friday following, so we get to see two games in one trip and spend some time in Phoenix, the theory being Suze can always go to see Ruthie at a Mystics game, and it seems a lot more to the point than flying down here and driving to Phoenix to see one game, no?

I saw your "lesbian" comment up there, M., so maybe we should call you "Lisa" from now on. (Not a Princess reference, a reference to Lisa, the Lesbian Identified Male from "The L-Word".) :)

How be I treat you to lunch or dinner while Suze hacks all of Gia's computers with all her fiendish REBOL scripts? (And all this time some people just thought she couldn't spell 'rebel'.)

Nice of you to post such kind words, M., thanks. :)

*kiss*
Andrea