Gotnext Women's Basketball Boards

SportsFan48 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1124

I think the Mercury have a wonderful opportuntity right now to restart the season and turn things around. We have the whole team here. We have a week before our next game. They can use this next week as a "mini-training camp" to get to know each other better and to know what the coaches want them to do.

Even though Penny and Kamila joined this team a few games back, the team as a whole has not had an opportunity to practice much together. If they can take advantage of this week and really have some productive practices, they can turn this season around.

Thoughts??? Ideas??

azmindwalk · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 5 Location: Glendale, AZ

Of course! I agree with you that this week is exactly what the team needs for all the reasons you stated.

However, I still have major reservations about our coaching staff. I'm not convinced that Graf is strong enough to be a head coach. She's got the resume on paper, but..... As much as he's NOT my favorite person, I think we can see the difference Brian made last year in terms of late game strategy. Has anyone been able to visit the practices to see what Timsey actually contributes? She was a stellar point guard, but is she a coach?

As many complaints as I've heard & read about post players "standing under the basket, just looking," I feel like that describes what most of our coaches do during the games, too. We need a coach that simply doesn't ACCEPT losing. Winning teams have coaches that are in there right to the end of the game, and I just don't see that from Graf.

librarygeek · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 176 Location: Central Phx

I also think this week will be a good opportunity for the team to regroup.

I can't really comment on whether or not Graffy is strong enough to be a head coach but hasn't she been a head coach a number of times before? I'm not convinced that Brian Agler was the reason we did better last year.

Which brings me to a question: how much influence does an assistant coach have? Do they have to defer to the head coach a lot or are they given their own assignments and responsibilities? Just curious, does anyone know?

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix AZ

librarygeek wrote: Which brings me to a question: how much influence does an assistant coach have? Do they have to defer to the head coach a lot or are they given their own assignments and responsibilities? Just curious, does anyone know?
My thoughts are that a good Head Coach is Numero Uno and should be deferred to by anyone working for her. BUT, a good HC will listen to the Assistants who are assigned certain responsibilities like: defense or offense & the many other aspects of running a practice. A good HC will remain open and listen to the assistant's opinions and suggestions. They may work closer with certain positions/individuals. HC should take all into consideration & make decisions accordingly. If you watch closely you can usually see this type of coach in action. Are the assistants sitting on the bench like logs or are they actively communicationg with the HC?

huggygirl · Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 2 Location: phoenix

THEY BETTER DO IT NOW OR NEVER! WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE SAT. WITHOUT ALL OF THE WHISTLE BLOWING!
LIVE IN HOPE, DIE IN DESPAIR!

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix AZ

huggygirl wrote: THEY BETTER DO IT NOW OR NEVER!
LIVE IN HOPE, DIE IN DESPAIR!

Welcome huggygirl
I'm glad you added that last part because "never" doesn't apply. The best way to make them "better now" is to give them all the encouragement we can give. We need to cheer loud and strong to give them back the confidence they need to win. The 1st half of the last game is proof of that. We have an amazing amount of talented players. They just need to get their head back in the "can do it" mode.

I'm sure you don't know this, but some of the players read this message board. Rather than criticize in a negative or harsh way, we prefer positive reinforcement & honest critique. Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course, but knowing this I'm hoping you'll think more about your phrasing.

Yes the officiating was very uneven. We will lose when our important starters are in foul trouble early and foul out of the game. It's like the refs wanted to make sure to keep the game under control by picking on key players. They should have seen by the 1st quarter that it was not going to be a repeat of the Mystics game. I just hope they're being as hard on the Mystics.

MercuryBoFan · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 240 Location: Glendale

I am not convinced either that Coach Graf is capable of coaching this team. She should be allowed to coach this team the rest of the season as anymore changes would be disastrous.

However, next season, we need a new coach. Nothing against Graf I don't think this team is right for her.

adidasgrl27 · Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Ontario, Cali

I agree with 1 Carol I think that there are aspects from the game that we should be happy about as fans. :lol: The team is definately playing better. Less turnovers, more points in the paint.

We just need to get that point where we can make those positives into a win.

I have only seen a couple of games (because they do not show them on TV !) But, this last one was pretty good as far as effort. We were playing the Sun who are now 10-2 and in 1st in the East.

I have to say that DT looked great out there finally taking the type of shots we need her to take. I was also encouraged by the way Kamila was playing.

mb · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:59 pm Post subject:

Recently I've questioned my faith in Coach Graf, then realize I am firmly behind her and the team.

However, if I were coach, we'd be having two-a-day practices this week.

We need to play the first few minutes of each half (at least the second) as if we are ten points down with three minutes to go.

Also we must get in the paint and to the line whether it be via posts or drives by perimeter players.

Many stats to look at...more analysis when I have time and am less tired.

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix AZ

Quote: "librarygeek"
I can't really comment on whether or not Graffy is strong enough to be a head coach but hasn't she been a head coach a number of times before? I'm not convinced that Brian Agler was the reason we did better last year.
Coach Graf was HC in AUS and took her team to the championship more than once (Aussie friend - correct me on # of times)

She believes in motivating her team rather than the scream & yell harrassment type. She did a fantastic job with our team last season. I'm just guessing that it's *possible* she's being taken advantage of. She *may* need to adjust her coaching style to get through to some of the players this season.

Based on Coach Graf's history, I have complete faith in her abilities. The last thing this team needs is another coaching change to put it in total chaos. Makes no difference if it's during or off season.

Brian Agler.......... :(
As the season progressed, he was less actively involved with the team and Graff's coaching became more invloved. She asked his advice less & less. Our team played better and won more games accordingly

hellcat · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 3:16 am Post subject:

Quote: From 1993-96 Graf was the head coach of the WNBL’s Sydney Flames, and she was an assistant coach for the Melbourne Tigers of the WNBL in 1992. In seven seasons as a head coach in the WNBL Graf collected a record of 119 wins and 29 losses. She coached in five championships, winning three (1993, 2000, 2002) and made the playoffs every year.

:wink:

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix AZ

Thank you Hellcat
I knew you would come through for me and Coach Carrie
A record that's definitely worth repeating.
Quote: From 1993-96 Graf was the head coach of the WNBL’s Sydney Flames, and she was an assistant coach for the Melbourne Tigers of the WNBL in 1992. In seven seasons as a head coach in the WNBL Graf collected a record of 119 wins and 29 losses. She coached in five championships, winning three (1993, 2000, 2002) and made the playoffs every year.

librarygeek · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 176 Location: Central Phx

Thanks for the info, hellcat. I knew she had a pretty extensive background but that record is better than I realized.

Hmmm...Brian Agler...if he were the answer to anyone's prayers, wouldn't San Antonio be doing a little better this year?

azmindwalk · Joined: 29 May 2003 Posts: 5 Location: Glendale, AZ

Lest I be entirely misunderstood, let me clarify my comments: First, I don't have a personal vendetta against Graf and I totally love this team and the organization -- I always have. My comments stem from the fact then WHENEVER you have a team loaded with talent and the team is not performing, the coaching is what one HAS to look at. True in any sport, at any level.

Second, I am definitely NOT a Brian Agler fan and was surprised that we brought him on board. I was equally surprised that he seemed to "behave himself" and appeared to be able to make contributions without stepping all over Graf (for one season -- don't know if he could have contained himself longer - LOL!) What he seemed to contribute was effective late game strategies -- responsive plays. This does NOT make him a well-rounded head coach and we are all too familiar with deficiencies he has in other areas.

What I AM pointing out is the obvious -- if we have a talented team that is not performing, what's the coaching look like? My comments included a respectful reference to Graf's resume, but questioned whether she has the strength, the passion, the leadership (?) - whatever - to carry the coaching load of this team. I also posed the question that perhaps, we do not have a good coaching MIX -- maybe Graf needs some stronger assistants to help her in certain areas?

It is rare to find a coach that has it all -- and it generally takes a lot of years for one person to develop the many and varied skills needed. And with short seasons and tight budgets, the problem is exacerbated in the WNBA. We can't afford to wait for the process of growth that many of the college programs have been able to endure. So, maybe we need to look at a stronger coaching team? Don't know - I'm only posing questions.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

I don't think it is fair to blame the coach in this particular season. For the first couple of games, Graf had Diana and Anna, both played well, but 40 points does not win basketball games. Then we added, a very tired, Penny. Who played well the first few games, but Diana and Anna didn't play as well as they had before..so now we are up to 50 points. Once again, 50 points on the road..does not give you many opportunities to win games. Then we added Kamilla, who just came back from getting her knee scoped..She has played pretty well, but lately has been in a slump..

The problems lie within Chemistry, no post and no point guard...and lack of focus. Obviously Kamilla and Maria will help the post situation, as soon as they get adjusted to the team, Kamilla already has helped...and ARob has made a huge improvement. And I still really want to see what Sandora can do.

Point guard, the Merc can't keep playing Diana at point. Yes she is the leader of the team, and yes she's a great passer who makes other players around her better, but she's also the Mercury's main scoring option. And she tends to play a bit too much like Sue Bird when she's playing point. (except with added turnovers) I liked Graf's decision to play Shereka at point, for most of the game. To me, that seemed to work out pretty well, Shereka just has to adjust more. But the Merc played suprisingly well, especially when you consider that Anna and Penny had off nights, and Diana and Kamilla were in foul trouble. So, maybe Shereka can be the answer to the point guard problem

Chemistry and focus...Okay, I love Anna, I think she's a great shooter...but for whatever reason, her and Plennette are on a different page than the rest of the team. I don't know why because I didn't notice it last year, but with the starting line up of Kamilla, PP, Penny, Diana, Anna..It always seems like Kamilla, Penny and Diana are one team, and Anna and PP are another. It's at the point where the Merc might want to think about trading both of them. Maybe trading PP for a draft pick (since we have to get rid of a post anyway) and trading Anna, somewhere for a backup point guard (Sacremento has two backup point guards..surely they can spare one of them..)

And then there is focus, here is where Graf's part does come in. Maybe she needs to fire them up somehow. She suprised me throughout the whole Mystics game...from the technical, to sticking up for Diana. I expected her to remain quiet about that particular incident, just because Graf has always struck me as a classy Woman, who just would keep her team away from that sort of situation, and just ignore it..instead of saying her bit..Which is why the technical suprised me as well. I truthfully don't remember the last time she got a technical. Graf needs to figure out a way to put some more fire into her team. I think Carrie is a great coach, and from the sounds of it, losing is new to her as well...I think she should most definitely keep the job for the rest of the year. And personally, I don't think it's time to think of a new coach for next year, we should wait and see how well the team performs for the rest of the year.

librarygeek · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 176 Location: Central Phx

I'm not ready to lay all of this at Graf's feet either. I think the point guard decision was not the best experiment and I'm assuming she was responsible for that. But if they can make the adjustment with Shereka and pick up another PG sooner or later (perhaps sooner!) than I think the situation will improve.

PP and Anna do appear to be playing on their own private team sometimes...what's up with that? And will it be addressed?

And it terms of firing up the team (and the fans), I am encouraged by Graf going to bat for her players and not making negative comments about them a la Trudi Lacey. I'm wondering if one of Timmsy's roles could be to reawaken her inner cheerleader. She used to be able to get the crowd going like no other. Maybe it's not appropriate now that she's the assistant coach but we sure could use some of that intensity and passion right about now.

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

ok..... I must be missing something - 'everyone' is talking about Anna and Plenette working together but not with the team...... I don't see it.... please tell me where I'm being blind.

My 'gripe' with Graf has to do with the chemistry issue - we have talented players, but not a team. Graf should be the one molding the team because she is the coach - the 'authority' figure. She is the one who must take all the strong personality on this team and head it together in one direction. That's want I don't see happening.

As far as Penny is concerned - has she returned yet? (ok... not fair) But I'm thinking Keegan's idea of some IR time to rest might not be a bad idea.

kitkat310 · Joined: 20 Jun 2005 Posts: 303

You don't see it, I noticed it maybe five or six games ago. It's just a chemistry problem, and I don't know where it started from..

SportsFan48 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1124

This has turned into a nice discussion.

I think there are a couple of other issues that need to be considered when we talk about this season.

I don't think we should slight the impact of our schedule so far. We have not had a good home/road balance and it think that the road trips really take their toll, even at the start of the season. It could be one reason why Penny has not been able to get her rest.

Second, when talking about team chemistry, I agree that the coach is ultimately responsible. However, you can not forget the importance of the team leader on the floor. DT has taken that responsibility and rightly so. However, I am not sure she has done the job as well as she can. In my personal experience, a leader who gets visably upset, frustrated, and mad quite often loses the ability to truely lead. I back up this theory by looking at the season. Our best game was the LA road game. We beat an injured, but good LA team in LA. Dee was composed, focused, and looking like she was having a good time in that game. The same can be said of the SASS game at home. But she has lost her cool in most of the other games. This is really not her nature and I don't know what she needs to do to fix it, other than relax and have fun, but to be the effective leader this team needs, she needs to change, IMO. DT is such an amazing player but I think, an even more amazing person. I have every bit of confidence she will find a way to come to terms with her frustrations and, I hope, she starts to really enjoy playing again.

Last but not least, for the record, I am 100% or more behind this team and our coaching staff. This team will turn itself around and will end up much better than most expect. We don't need to make any changes. Everyone just needs to take a deep breath, relax, and do what they do best. And have fun doing it.

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1558 Location: Phoenix

First, Houston won many championships with players who played 38 to 40 minutes, don't blame that.

Second, we have a talented team, yes, but we are far from the most talent laden team....and if talent was all it took, NY would be big losers and Charlotte wouldn't be.

Third, this is professional basketball, it is not the coahes job to mold people. The players need to find their focus, Graffy can't do it for them.

Fourth, if chemistry won championships, LA and Houston never would have won any :roll: The Houston players, well there were personality conflicts galore, and LA has diva de jour Lisa, nuff said.

I don't have solutions though, I guess that's why I'm not a coach

Mercurymaniac · Joined: 04 Aug 2002 Posts: 1197 Location: Scottsdale

One of the things that has been consistantly happening with this team is that we seem to run out of gas.

We has been in every one of these games lately on the road and then it seem like the other team finds another gear and goes on a 10 run or something.

When the other team goes on a run, we seem to panic and then you see all of the quick shots, standing around on offense and loss of intensity.

I would like to see a little more rotation of the players, so our starters aren't out of gas by the end of the game. I don't like Charly Turner-Thorne's sub pattern, but its starting to make some sense as this Mercury season progresses. :shock: I think it could really help to give Dee, Penny and Anna little breaks and play some of the bench.

It helps in two ways, the bench get some experience and the starters get a break.

We are not totally out of the playoff picture, but we've made a challenge for ourselves.

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

I think chemistry has been an issue since the 1st home game. It looked like 5 people on court who'd never met and were on the court together for the 1st time, not just an issue with AD and PP.

As the whole 'chemistry' issue - Caune, you're point is well taken that Houston and LA have been successful without the players being best of friends, but I disagree on the coach's role. Both Houston and LA had coaches that sat down with the players and re-inforced, beat into them, however, that they didn't need to like each other but if they wanted to win, they sure as hell had better play together. Graf can't provide the players their own focus, but if there is rancor and dissent on the team, someone in a leadership position needs to sit down with them and get them back on the same court.

Someone needs to step up as the leader, needs to get the horses on this chariot headed in the same direction.

Lastly, I too, am 100% behind the team and Graf. I think what we need is here....... the dough just has to be formed a little more.......

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1558 Location: Phoenix

Quote: Someone needs to step up as the leader, needs to get the horses on this chariot headed in the same direction.

Could this be the problem, too many people want to lead?
Dee would be the obvious, but maybe, and this is just a maybe cause I don't really know, but maybe there is resentment?

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

I don't think Diana has learned to deal with extended periods of adversity yet.

We're not going to win many games if Anna continues to shoot like she has, Penny continues to disappear like she has and the posts continue to be inconsistent (and more crap than good). Coach Graf has some responsibility but in the end, the players are grown women and they have pull their heads out of their arses. I'd like to see coach Graf #1 play the bench more and #2 encourage more attacking basketball instead of jumpshot after jumpshot.

I still think we need a real PG but that will have to wait till next season.

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

I'm pretty much with Keegan on this one. Remembering how vocal I was in the days of John Shumate and TJ, I don't have a sense that the blame should be placed at Carrie Graf's feet either.

This team is coming back from the depths of basketball hell. Getting Anna DeForge was a good first step, but we all talked last year about how neither the DeForge comeback nor the drafting of Diana Taurasi solved the huge problems in the middle.

Carrie Graf's never had all the pieces here. I think that's what destroys the chemistry of the team. I don't think there's a player on this team who isn't fed up and frustrated, as must be Graf, Timms and Brase.

As for leadership, I think there's veteran leadership in DeForge, and most definitely in Taurasi. I don't think there's a partcular need to have one team leader, and *only* one.

When you're 0 for you're last two weeks or whatever, everybody's nipping at each other's heels, and losing *can* become a permanent state of mind. I think over the last two seasons, we've seen progress, Graf deserves credit for it, but so do the players who toughed it out.

The chemistry will come back, the game-flow will come back as players get more familiar with each other, and when that happens, people *will* start running without the ball, and cutting across the lane, and making it work. I think Graf proved herself midseason last year before the Great Gaping Hole opened up in Minnesota and stopped the dream of making the playoffs.

I think Espionage Barbie will make all the difference in the world, and - I hope under Graf's guidance - can turn this season into a success.

Just please don't cut the Swiffer, because anybody who'll throw themselves on the floor after a loose ball can stay on my team anyday.

As Keegan says, though, it's time a few of the players recovered from their Recto-Cranial Infarctions. Besides, it's dark in there, and shooting jumpers is difficult, I bet.

MercuryBoFan · Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 240 Location: Glendale

My Assessment: The Mercury need to stop allowing the other teams easy basket after easy basket. My Gosh, where is the defense ? Especially, when the game is on the line ?

That one player the other night against Charlotte she scored like 5-7 points in a matter of what seem seconds and put the game out of reach down the stretch. I watched the highlights and there was no defense on her !!!

That has been the problem this year is the lack of defense in the middle and under the paint. I been to two of three home games this year and have been frustrated time and time again with the lack of defense.

Anna Deforge is in her own world right now but she is such a competitor that I think she too is getting frustrated and then trying too hard to get her team back in the game.

Diana I seen take some bone headed shots also in those two home games. However, its because they are frustrated and just trying to win.

Once again, if this team does not make the post-season, then its been a wasted season. This team should expect no less than the playoffs.

As far as I'm concern, with this week long break. The team is no longer 3-10 they are 0-0. This is their chance to make a major run. This next part of the season should be exciting.

Coach Graf and everyone involve need to get their heads out of their asses and start playing like we all know this Mercury team can play. Those that don't perserve need to be shown the door because whether or not they get paid well or not their job is to play their hearts out for not only the team but the loyal fans who been following this team and are not giving up.

I live in Surprise, AWA, 45 minutes away, 110 degrees, I have 5 home games remaining but I won't attend if the Mercury are going to be wasting my time with this non-sense losing. At least last year, even when they lost games, they were in it the whole game and fought till the end. This year, it seems they give up in the second half !!!

dionneza11 · Joined: 09 Jun 2005 Posts: 28 Location: houston,tx

how much are players getting payd 2 play?coaches?

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix AZ

dionneza11 wrote: how much are players getting payd 2 play?coaches?
This shows all facets of the WNBA players salaries from 2003 through 2007, when the CBA is due to be renegotiated.
Women's Basketball Online - WNBA Salary Scale
http://womensbasketballonline.com/wnba/rosters/salary.html

Coach salaries apparently aren't published. Rumors say they're equivalent to college coach salaries. As you know that covers a broad spectrum from small colleges to UConn & Tenn. So this rumor doesn't help at all. :roll:

1carol · Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Posts: 1032 Location: Phoenix AZ

Quote: "andypanda"
As Keegan says, though, it's time a few of the players recovered from their Recto-Cranial Infarctions. Besides, it's dark in there, and shooting jumpers is difficult, I bet.
:lol: ROFLMAO

andypanda · Joined: 12 Jun 2003 Posts: 354 Location: Santa Fe, NM

It's kind of a tradeoff, 1Carol. You get a lot more distance, but a lot less accuracy. :) I think it's why they fade in the second half - they just run out of gas.