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mb

Here's some views from the outside via the RebKell board
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewforum.php?f=1
...I'll paste a few quotes with the links (see next post for my comments, and please add yours):

page1:
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=3906&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

re: who gets cut to add Maria

streaks:
Quote: Admiral_Needa wrote:
Quote: I'm thinking Angelina Williams... Lisa Harrison as the longshot... too popular

Naw, It will be a post player. Either Ashley, Gwen or Kayte. And yeah, Lisa is way too popular.

Keegan:
Quote: Lindsay Taylor was waived because she's not WNBA-calibre. A 6'8" player who struggles to rebound? Argh!

Too bad Lisa's on a guaranteed contract, otherwise she probably would have been waived for a backup ballhandler.

It's highly unlikely that Angelina's going anywhere else - the staff like her potential. All she has to do is learn how to play in a team (damn you Grentz).

pilight:
Quote: Isn't Lisa Harrison the GM or team president or something? No way she's the one leaving.

page 2
http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?t=3906&start=25

PennyTfan1:
Quote: I was watching yesterday's game and was struck by a few things.

A.) Why in the hell does Kayte get into the game and Gwen gets a DNP?

B.) How can Carrie not recognize that the team gets better overall interior production (hell, the entire team just flat out plays better) with A-Rob on the floor rather than PP?

C.) Why didn't they bang the ball into KV until the Libs proved they could stop her? Maybe they are not used to having a post player they can go to and old habits die hard? Maybe they need to insert some plays for the post player and then run them?

D.) It might have just been yesterday's game....but Phoenix struck me as a group of players that are not having fun playing the game. Seemed every player had blank looks from start to end. Not really fired up when things went well and not particularly upset when things went bad. Just sort of....blah. It's as if they really did not care one way or another.
E.) Maybe it is not a regular occurance, but yesterday, Carrie got her ass out-coached.

As for who should get cut when/if Maria shows up? To me, it's a no-brainer. Keeping someone because the fans love her, regardless of how awful she is on the floor, is a mindset that breeds a losing metality. This team needs players who produce more than just floor burns and fouls. Kayte must go.

mercfan3:
Quote: I think they should be way better than were they are..They probably have the best backcourt in the leauge with Penny Diana and Anna....And Kamilla aint to shabby..

The biggest problem seems to be that they are not a team. There is too much one on one, a couple of the players play well on this team, but as for right now, they truly aren't a team. (Diana and Kamilla, Diana and Penny, Diana and ARob, Penny and Kamilla)

If Anna isn't shooting well, she actually hurts the Merc on offense. She isn't a good passer, and if she does pass, she passes to Plennette (which is generally not the best idea)

Penny and Diana just aren't as aggressive as they need to be. Especially Penny, I'd like to see her taking some of Anna's shots when Anna isn't shooting well. (Di usually passes when she knows she isn't shooting well..which is good because then Penny gets some more shots..but I'd like to see Di drive a bit more...)

And Diana seems to be so turnover prone, I'm sure her turnovers will decrease when the team hopefully creates more chemistry, but until then..maybe she should layoff the "no look, cross court with one hand pass," or maybe just lay off the "no look" passes..I'm suprised she hasn't hit anyone in the head yet..

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

My worthless and amateur recommendations :lol:

#1 If Maria comes - cut Kayte. Cut Lisa for a backup PG.

"Controversial" I guess but I think it's necessary. Luuuc/Dunkin' Dan said (inferred?) it best on Rebkell's - Kayte is like our Simone Edwards. Good hustle type and popular but ultimately not talented enough to play in this league. If she is cut, I hope the Merc can give her some sort of PR job because she is great in that department. Lisa is guaranteed but we're cutting her for roster room and we can afford the extra salary. I think we need that backup PG - if Diana or Anna are off or in foul trouble, we need the backup PG to be played so that whichever of the two is left on court doesn't have to worry about handling, running the offense, shooting, playing D and turning water into wine.

#2 Bench Plenette if Maria comes over. Start Kamila and Maria. More Gwen!

I don't think Plenette deserves the minutes she's getting. She's too inconsistent and her player on player post D is weak. Kamila's post D is a bit dodgy as well but she produces more on the offensive end than Plenette and she has size and may have better chemistry with Maria (less language barrier?). In any case, Gwen Jackson needs more PT.

#3 Play Shereka. Have her drive the lane.

Self-explanatory especially with Anna's sub-par shooting. If Shereka gets PT though, she cannot afford to settle for threes like she's been doing in some games.

I'll also add that Graffy is really on the hot seat. I'm not giving her a pass because she's Aussie. If things don't turn around within the next 5-10 games, yes I'll probably be among the chorus of voices calling for a change. I know you can coach Graffy, it's time to show your stuff!

mb · Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject:

Here is a link to the roster stats:

http://www.wnba.com/mercury/stats/

Either Diana needs some teammates who can catch the ball and finish, she's passing to where they should be (vs where they are), or she is simply trying to do to much...4.0 assists per game is adequate...3.5 turnovers per game is very bad unless you are Bobby Hill.

That said, I want Taurasi on the court as much as possible.

Shot distribution is horrible...late arrivals of Penny and Kamila are part of the cause.

The Shereka at back up point experiment does not work for me.

Rather than cutting a player, we should trade a back-up post for a future draft pick.

Granted, our backcourt won't sit for many minutes; yet our bench production blows.

Doesn't matter who does it, we must get in the paint/lane more often...thereby getting to the freethrow line more often.

Since Carrie won't, Timmsy needs to make it a point to take a technical to fire up the team and make a point to the officials now and again!

There are times when Anna or Plenette get the ball and it becomes obvious noone else will touch it unless they get the offensive rebound.

Maybe it is ASU love, yet often I day dream about Kylan Loney at the point, Diana at SG, Anna at SF, Penny at PF (admittedly bothered me last season), and Kamila/Maria at C.

Stepanova will be welcomed by this fan.

Ashley needs more minutes when consistent.
Gwen has underachieved based on some fans lofty expectations.

Going undefeated at home in July and August will change everything.

oddball8450 · Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 101

I am no where near as knowledgable as either Keegan or MB, but will still offer my opinions:

1 - Maria - what concerns me more than who we cut if she shows is what do we do when she leaves. I like Kayte but I think the point is well made that we need more than what she brings. Her intensity 'always' seems to bring a change to the game flow, but is she capable of scoring more. Don't think she'll change on the foul side because it seems that fouls are an expectation of what she'll do when she's in, ie.. rough up the other team.

2. Plenette vs A-Rob - when you look at the black and white numbers Plenette is slightly better than A-Rob. What are each of their hot buttons - someone needs to find out and start pressing them.

3. Shereka - I haven't been that impressed with her, but someone is.

4. Anna - Anna is not the problem. When the 3 leading scorers are 12 for 37, one person isn't the problem. Interestingly (at least to me) at this point of the season, compared to the total of last season - DT's ppg are down, AD's are even, PT's are down (but she gets a break because she's just getting back in sync). Turnovers are up from last year - DT 1 more per game; AD and PT slightly less than 1 more per game. So I don't really think Anna is the only 'sub-par' shooting issue we have.

Where the problem seems to be for me is the old team chemistry thing..... for the most part these players have had a year together....so they should know each other better.... so why are we turning the ball over almost 4 more times/per game than we did last year? Early in the New York game DT seemed intent on passing to the Liberty not the Merc... where was she mentally......

I know these stats are simplistic and there are other factors involved, but I think the quote from PennyTfan1 that MB copied really states the issue - they don't seem like they're enjoying the game, especially as compared to last year. It doesn't have anything to do with the road trip either, because it was noticable the 1st home game..... it was like they didn't know each other on court, they weren't in sync, together and the further down they got the more individual they got.

One of the things that impressed me about last years team that doesn't seem to be there this year is that they were a team... they took time to get to know each other, they seemed to really enjoy playing together, there was a different synergy on court and off court than there is now. This is why I look to the coaching. Has Carrie lost the 'team' in this? What caused the chemistry change between last year and this?

We have a talented group of basketball players... we just don't have a team.

librarygeek · Joined: 27 May 2005 Posts: 176 Location: Central Phx

"We have a talent group of basketball players... we just don't have a team."

I couldn't agree more, oddball. I don't know anywhere near as much about basketball as most of the people who frequent this board so I won't waste anyone's time with armchair coaching. One thing I can comment on, however, is chemistry, mood, confidence, whatever you want to call it. It just seems like this season has been a parade of expectations - that we will make the playoffs, that we're more talented than last year, that Penny will make the difference, that Kamila will make the difference. Now maybe Maria will make the difference. It's not about the talent. It's about passion. It's about who this team is right now, not what this team will be able to accomplish when the next talented person is added to the mix. Last year, the team managed to do more with less. Last year we had a lot more passion. Not sure why it's lacking this year and I'm not really interested in calling anyone out for it. I think that's counterproductive. Let's focus on the positive. Everyone on the team and the coaching staff is capable of passion and intensity. Ditto the fans. We need to come up with it right now.

Just a newbie's observations.

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

Seems to me that poor shooting could be related to practically no paint production. When you're so perimeter based, it's easy to defend and forces our perimeter shooters to make bad shots. I agree, more slashing to the basket and a stronger inside could help free up our outside. I think it's improved with KV here, and if the long-rumored Espionage Barbie really shows that can't hurt, either

And I really miss having a floor general to run things - we had less talent in '98 but a really great PG in our beloved Timmsy. Look how far we went then.

mranderso · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:18 am Post subject:

By nature I'm pretty pessimistic person … However, I see us as just
two games behind in the battle for a playoff spot, Kamila has started
just one game, 24 games to go in the season, 14 at home.

If the team hasn't gelled yet, not sure stirring is the solution.

BackInTheDayPlay · Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 33

Going undeated at home puts us 17, we'd need to steal more than 1 or 2 on the road to even think about being playoff competitive...I trying to remain optimistic but the ladies aren't doing much to perpetuate that train of thought.
I don't know what the missing link is...but I don't think it's that Russian.

mranderso · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:27 am Post subject:

Win at home and steal a few on the road. Is that anything different
than we needed to do before the season began?

We already have two road wins, and were a trey away from
taking one from Houston.

We've lost two early ones at home with a depleated lineup. Shrug.
If we won those two, and had lost all our road games, we would be
in the same spot.

We knew from the day the schedules came out that we were in for
a rough start to the season.

CamrnCrz1974 · Joined: 16 Jun 2003 Posts: 1689 Location: Central Phoenix

Quote: Kylan Loney at the point

Kylan could not defend anyone in this league. If Amanda Levens couldn't make a roster, Kylan can't either. And Levens was a stud in college.

tracey · Joined: 17 Jul 2002 Posts: 146 Location: chandler AZ

I completely agree with many of you about the lack of enthusiasm with this particular team. Why do they look like they would rather be fishing?
I'm sure losing isn't helping the morale, but even at the beginning of the season they lacked passion.

This team has so much talent, but all they have done is show us how to underachieve. They are painful to watch at times. I know they can compete with any team in this league, but they aren't playing like they can compete with any team in this league.

I wasn't expecting this season to be so difficult. Merc....you're killing me!!!!

BackInTheDayPlay · Joined: 09 Jul 2004 Posts: 33

"Win at home and steal a few on the road. Is that anything different
than we needed to do before the season began? "

point missed... :roll: ...enjoy the season

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

To me the obvious cut is Lisa. But I'd prefer a trade be made for a pick next year 8)
Kayte is the only post player we have who actually "gets" defense, she certainly isn't the most talented defender, but at least she puts in the effort.

and MB, your Kyln dreams are based on her looks not her play, right???

mranderso · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:33 am Post subject:

Last year's road trip hell, 3 at home 7 on the road.

Code:
Jun 24 Thu New York W 72-60 6-5 DeForge 26
Jun 26 Sat San Antonio L 80-72(OT) 6-6 Taylor 25
Jun 27 Sun @ Sacramento L 63-57 6-7 Taurasi 16
Jun 29 Tue @ San Antonio W 77-65 7-7 DeForge 26
Jul 1 Thu @ Charlotte W 71-59 8-7 Taurasi 29
Jul 3 Sat @ Indiana L 61-60 8-8 DeForge 18
Jul 7 Wed @ Los Angeles L 73-71 8-9 Taurasi 25
Jul 9 Fri @ Minnesota L 61-59 8-10 DeForge 25
Jul 11 Sun @ New York L 77-69 8-11 DeForge 31
Jul 18 Sun Minnesota L 63-60 8-12 Taylor 20

tracey · Joined: 17 Jul 2002 Posts: 146 Location: chandler AZ

Quote: We knew from the day the schedules came out that we were in for
a rough start to the season.

You know, that is true. I'm not trying to be hard on the team. Goodness knows that I love the Mercury, and I don't need them to win every game. I'm not even concerned about the playoffs. I enjoy watching them play with passion. No one is more exciting to watch than the Mercury when they are clicking. IMO they seem to lack the spark that they had last season, and I cannot figure out why.

As for who to cut when/if Maria arrives, I don't even like to speculate. I love Kayte and respect Lisa, and I have a feeling those two names will be considered. Sigh. I hate the business side of basketball. I feel like the team is family....a family I have never met, but family all the same. I hate to see anyone leave.

Gil · Joined: 25 Jun 2002 Posts: 84

In regards to Kayte, there are many things that she does when she is in the game that just don't show up in a box score. Most importantly, when she comes into the game her assignment is usually against the opposing team's best post player (e.g., Lisa Leslie, Tina Thompson, Lauren Jackson, Yolanda Griffith) - always has been always will - and some of these opposing post players have publicly said that they don't like to play against Kayte when she's in the game. Maybe that's why she got the start against Lauren Jackson and the Storm early on this season? I also think that in that same game LJ did not comfortably reach her league averages for points and rebounds during the game.

We all know that Kayte is not a 30-35 minute player in this league, but for the 10-15 minutes she can be out there, she can play solid individual and team defense against the opposition in the post, and willing to take the charge or create the offensive foul (another possession). She's also willing to use her allotment of fouls, at times a bit too much, to protect the Mercury's other post players from getting into foul trouble. For example, going back to last season, how do you think that Plenette and Adrian Williams were able to garner higher rebound totals and All-Star consideration? Mostly b/c when Kayte was in the game, she'd go in to box-out the opposing team's aforementioned post players to keep them off of the boards, which allowed Adrian and Plenette to clean up on the glass.

She's shot a fairly high percentage from the floor during her WNBA career, just hasn't gotten the ball in the post (like most Mercury post players), and she certainly isn't instructed by the coach to come into the game to score on this team to fill out the stat sheet. She doesn't get anywhere close to the number of touches that Ashley, Plenette, or Kamila receive in a game - and that's not her job. I just think that there is more to a player's value on a team than just comparing the amount of points and rebounds between players. She certainly helps provide the energy and helps add to the team's chemistry. Every team needs a player on their team willing to do the hustle plays and blue-collar work, which Kayte provides in every minute of every game.

tracey · Joined: 17 Jul 2002 Posts: 146 Location: chandler AZ

Gil, you have me sold. You should be Kayte's PR person. Or....are you a family member? :lol:

mranderso · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject:

Like everyone else here, I would like to see some wins.
It's just that the thread looked somewhat familiar, like
towards the end of the 3-7 slide last year. Players needing
to have more fun, lineup changes, must win games, etc. Maybe
Maria arriving with a similar effect to the mid-season trade
for Gwen did.

http://www.gotnext.com/mercury/viewtopic.php?t=920

http://www.gotnext.com/mercury/viewtopic.php?t=923

Last year we started with 7 home/3 road games. (and were
only 5 and 5 at the end of 10 games).

I saw some pretty loose players at the noon home game. At the
player intro, Lisa and Shreka were chest bumping the starting
line as it was introduced. Diana, faked up, and ducked between
them, leaving them hanging. Smiles all around. So, I don't see
them at the end of their rope just yet.

I was lucky enough to see them play in LA and Sacramento last
week. In LA, the local fans were pretty sparse and there seemed
like a significant and vocal Mercury crowd. But, Sacramento was
much different, fewer Mercury fans, and a much more vocal home
crowd. I think I came away with a new appreciation of how difficult
playing on the road trip could be.

I also watched the LA game on TIVO later. I think the passion of
players doesn’t always come thru the small screen. Things, like
the pick Shreka took in person, was much more dramatic than it
came across on TV. So I think some of the missing spark is just
that we’ve not had much of an opportunity to see them play at
home yet.

So hopefully, we’ll get some more home games soon. We’ll get
to exchange some energy with the player, and fans and players
will both feel a little more upbeat about the season.

SportsFan48 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1132

I agree, mranderso. This team is going to get it together and show us and the rest of the league that they can compete and do so with enthusiasm.

My observation, at least for the home games, is that the team was alright...but the X factor hasn't gotten their act together yet. I really think our crowd has been realitively lame. Some may argue that is because the team has no energy, but I don't think that is the case.

That said, my advice to this team is to go out and have fun.

tracey, Gil is Kayte's agent. But Gil's take on Kayte's contributions are right on. The only thing I think he left out is that Kayte has one of the best attitudes in the game. She accepts her role as a limited playing time player and is always ready to play when called upon. She is great in the locker room too.

Much of the same can be said of Lisa as well.

The decision on whom to cut is not going to be an easy one. The question you have to ask is "Who do you want or need to be here when Maria leaves?"

Since I want them all :lol: :lol: I will refrain from saying who I think it will be.

mb · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 7:21 pm Post subject:

Caune got it...my day dreams often get confused between a love/lust for female athletes and my passion for team basketball.

My comments dripped with sarcasm, as a subtle dig that we don't have a true point guard; and ASU alum or not, Ky ain't the answer.

Besides, as a Packer fan and Clinton devotee, meeting a Viking fan who is a young Republican would be like jumping in icewater...yikes!

Quote: tracey, Gil is Kayte's agent. But Gil's take on Kayte's contributions are right on. The only thing I think he left out is that Kayte has one of the best attitudes in the game. She accepts her role as a limited playing time player and is always ready to play when called upon. She is great in the locker room too.
AMEN, sportsfan!

Quote: Win at home and steal a few on the road. Is that anything different
than we needed to do before the season began?

We already have two road wins, and were a trey away from
taking one from Houston.

We've lost two early ones at home with a depleated lineup. Shrug.
If we won those two, and had lost all our road games, we would be
in the same spot.

We knew from the day the schedules came out that we were in for
a rough start to the season.
Spot on, mranderso!

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

I think we should show them MUCH love come Saturday - bring your "A" voice, and signs too! Who says we can't still do that even with the Sisters not dressing out anymore.

BTW - Sister of No Mercy, we really miss you!

All I know is, win or loose, I am a Mercury fan for life. I will love them no matter what or who (haven't we old-time STHs proven that!?) Heck, someone talked me into riding a mechanical bull last week 'cause they said "Anna DeForge would do it". So unfair to push my buttons that way! Now my middle finger's sprained and I don't know if it'll be in shape for the refs Saturday night. Just kidding......?

mb · Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:29 pm Post subject:

Quote: Heck, someone talked me into riding a mechanical bull last week 'cause they said "Anna DeForge would do it". So unfair to push my buttons that way! Now my middle finger's sprained and I don't know if it'll be in shape for the refs Saturday night. Just kidding......?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :twisted:

SuziQ · Joined: 17 Apr 2004 Posts: 288 Location: Phoenix

Okay, have entered serious rehab for my sprained digit as after tonight's game, I think it'll get a workout on Saturday. I do hide it, though, when it pops up during games because no matter how bad the refs are, I don't want to get ejected. Let's leave that to that D-Nasty b****.

tracey · Joined: 17 Jul 2002 Posts: 146 Location: chandler AZ

Gil is Katye's agent....I'm soooo embarassed. :oops: That explains your excellent explaination of Kayte's talents....I'm glad you are not a stalker.

I also love the Mercury. You know the saying, "In for a penny, in for a pound?" That's me....if that's the correct saying. :wink: Win or lose, I am a fan through and through.

I'm not worried about Saturday, the crowd to be ready for anything. I know I will. Mercury fans certainly know how to raise the roof. Nothing gets my blood pumping like yelling at the opposing team or the refs (when they deserve it).

So, don't worry Merc, there's no place like home.

I seem to be the master of hackneyed expressions today. Yikes!