Gotnext Women's Basketball Boards

skew11 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

'W' tonight at home needed. I expect the girls to come out and play tough after the embarrassment Friday. Fire are playing well but... "This is in the house that Jen built and Princess's Court" :D :wink:

Gaucho81 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 147 Location: Ventura, CA

2:53 to go in the first half - Mercury 38, Portland 26 :shock: :D :lol:

However, what's the deal with putting Veal in for just one minute :!: :!: :!: :!:

Come on Sharp, how can she possibly get into any kind of rithym (sp?) with just ONE minute :!: :!: :evil: :evil:

Gaucho81 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 147 Location: Ventura, CA

Halftime - Mercury 42, Fire 36 :lol:

Okay, clean slate for the second half. All we need to do is outscore the Fire in the second half.

Go Mercury!!!

Play Veal :!: 8) :lol:

kr · Joined: 23 Jun 2002 Posts: 63 Location: Denver

Watching the game on cable. It's the Portland feed. Isn't Phoenix broadcasting games any more -- with Mercury announcers??

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2002 7:39 pm Post subject:

Looks like this one is going down to the wire.
Luckily Phoenix still has the X-factor, so this game will be ours.
:o Go Mercury :!:

eaction83 · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

On paper, it looks like Sharp wore out the starters again. How else to explain such a bad collapse in the last several minutes.

No Kayte in the second half? Only 3 minutes for Veal?

At least Moises looks like she's finally out of whatever doghouse she'd been banished to...

Gaucho81 · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 147 Location: Ventura, CA

Terrible Coaching :evil: :evil: :evil:

Thumbs Down: Substitution Pattern

Thumbs Down: Outcome

Better Offensive Sets: MORE VEAL :idea:

More Aggression: MORE CHRISTENSEN :idea:

MORE VEAL MORE VEAL MORE VEAL :(

Sharp, why don't you get it :?: :?: :!: :x :evil:

Veal should be the floor general, PERIOD.

Sharp, you found a way to kill the X-Factor. Shame on You :!:

cbibat · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

agree with Keegan's other post - can't believe what coach did to Veal tonite - puts her in with under 2 min to play and clearly instructs her to foul........ Veal left the court really quickly after the game, have to think she's really discouraged..

Once again the bench didn't play much, and okay the game was close, but a lot of the games we've won have been close and the bench played and contributed more.....

The Santa Barbarian · Joined: 08 Jul 2002 Posts: 35

The Az Republic asked the same question I did prior to this game. Would the 41 pt loss cause a tream meltdown? It was answereed tonight. The team simply quit playing at the end of the game. At this point I don't know how you fix this.

I hope none of you mind if I pass on driving several hundered miles on the 27th to see Kayte play 7 min. in a losing effort?

minercon · Joined: 19 Jul 2002 Posts: 8

It was not a team meltdown, but pure exhaustion that lost the game tonight.

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Pure exhaustion is not a valid reason because our quite decent bench doesn't play enough minutes and I doubt THEY'RE exhausted (maybe tired from sitting so much?).

This goes in the "bad coaching" column.

Carol Fegenbush · Joined: 21 Jun 2002 Posts: 13 Location: California

I coach little kids and i know enough to not play a player 38 minutes...kayte was getting in a groove and getting the fans into the game.. no fouls.... Did she hurt her knees again? she got pushed around a bit with no fouls... Burris pushed her out of bounds and blocked her with her hip ... No fouls for Portland ..... Coach French subs all the time and Kayte could play the running game... The Mercury were pulling away when the upped the Tempo of the game... Williams was just standing around and not moving ...... I cant watch anymore..... sorry.... Veal looked disgusted and so did Saunders.... Kayte was not even clapping on the bench.... Dump the coaching staff ....

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

Well, the team did not quit, but a combination of the Fires good rotation and our emotional and physical exhaustion.........
if the starting five played well (ala the Comets of the past) then I'd say play the starters for 38 dam minutes, but geez, 2 of our starters are just filling space and not contributing a bit, and their replacements, kayte and Jay, need minutes to get better.....It is all a vicious circle :twisted:

Gaucho_Don · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 223

I missed listening to the game... again, but checked the box score and the play by play after the game. Kayte had 2 assists and a steal shortly (about 30 seconds) before she was pulled (7 minute stint... a reasonable rotation time for a change). I was just surprised to not see her reenter the game. During her stint the Merc went from down 2 points to up 6 points.

Here are some possible explanations:

1. She's hurt (worst case?) :cry:
2. The coaches didn't realize that they left her on the bench? Maybe Sharp just periodically forgets that she has a bench? :roll:
3. The coaching staff thinks, rightfully so imho, that she should be working more to get some boards, and errantly (also imho), thinks that her lack of boarding effort is justification for leaving her out of the rest of the game. :x
4. Jen really wants to play 38 minutes :shock:
5. The coaching staff doesn't want to have one of the most effective (%-wise) shooters in the WNBA on their team and are trying to make sure that she doesn't take enough shots to make the list. :P

Anyone else want to venture why they wouldn't play her (and Vealy, who I haven't really seen enough of to know what prejudices they must have against her) :?:

Keegan · Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

I know I've said this already but I think it's important. Since when has Tracy Reid been a 2 guard?

I'd play Moises/Veal at the point and shift Grubin to the 2 and Reid backs up Lisa whenever she needs a rest. Having another ballhandler on the court is good and we either have Veal's playmaking or Moises' scoring as opposed to Reid's insignificant play.

Gaucho_Don · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 223

Reid attempted a 3 pointer this year (missed it, but she attempted one) so she must be a shooting guard right :?: :twisted:

This must have been Sharp's "Big" lineup... hey, we outrebounded them :!:

0 assists, 5 boards, 5 points, and 5 turnovers... Those are the numbers I want from my guards :!:

I can't come up with any logical reasons why Sharp uses the lineups/substitutions that she does (anyone else?). It's almost like she's trying to coach the bench players to make them play worse, play well and you get less time, play bad and you get to start.
:idea: Maybe she's really still working for LA :!:

mb · Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2002 12:55 pm Post subject:

For the first time this season, it was quite evident that Veal was out of conditioning and a step slow. Their guard was extremely quick...Moises (who isn't slow) was chasing her down the court.

Having been one screaming for her to get more minutes, it seemed she looked too slow to defend last night. Had she been getting more minutes perhaps she'd been closer to game shape. It did seem almost futile and insulting sending her in to foul towards the end. Perhaps they were showing confidence in her three point shooting?

That explains the few minutes for Veal, so why the heck wasn't Kayte reinserted? :!: :!: :!:

God bless jen Gillom and her efforts, yet someone other than Gillom and Grubin must score. Actually scoring over 70 points, it is our defense that is of more concern than the offense. Glad to see we are having two-a-day practices this week.

Here's looking to next season. Any guesses on the trade???

caune · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

My guess is no trade...it would have happened already...and really, what do we have that anyone would want and that we are willing to give up?

Gaucho_Don · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 223

Maybe lisa was playing the 2 position and it's just listed wrong?

Anyway, when Reid sub'd out and the Merc returned to a more conventional 2 guard lineup we were only down by 1 point

Gaucho_Don · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 223

Interesting that the starting lineup did the worst out of all the lineups(of course they were in for most of the game so I'm not sure we have enough information to compare, but here are the details anyway)

And the best lineup was only on the floor about 5 minutes

(I have a 3 point problem - no Merc shooting jokes allowed - that I'm not going to take the time to fix right now, because it doesnt' affect this point too much)

Lineups Used
For Against +/-
Grubin Moises Gillom Reid Williams 19 17 2
Grubin Moises Gillom Harrison Williams 11 8 3
Grubin Reid Christensen Harrison Williams 3 2 1
Grubin Reid Gillom Harrison Williams 16 36 -20
Grubin Saunders Christensen Harrison Gillom 11 4 7
Saunders Moises Gillom Harrison Tuvic 3 5 -2
Saunders Moises Gillom Grubin Tuvic 6 5 1
Veal Moises Gillom Harrison Williams 7 8 -1
Veal Saunders Gillom Reid Williams 2 2 0
78 87

capsman · Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 31

of course Veal is a little slow. SHE HASN'T F***ING PLAYED ALL SEASON. Do they think she'll get quicker and fitter riding the pine!!

mb · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:47 am Post subject:

Easy Capsman, we are on your side and frustrated that Veal isn't playing as well. After saying she looked a tad bit slow I added:

Quote: Had she been getting more minutes perhaps she'd been closer to game shape.

Interesting point about the line-ups used and point differential. While Adrain gets boards, she doesn't score and turns the ball over. For now, she should use this rule: if I get the ball inside, whether by pass or offensive rebound; I should immediately put the shot back up. Never ever, for the time being; should I dribble the ball. Repeating, I should not put the ball on the floor, but rather in the basket.

Kayte can rebound, defend (even if by fouling) and score. Would love to view the same breakdown for some of our other games. Bet one would find we fare better when Kayte is on the floor. Hope to see more of the bench infused line-ups.

Looking forward to some reports from open practice. Made arrangements to go, then the employee covering me needed to take her daughter to the dentist.

Gaucho_Don · Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 223

I intend to do the same breakdown for some other games... I tried to do it for the slaughter, but it was just too ugly.

gia · Guest

Keegan wrote: Having another ballhandler on the court is good and we either have Veal's playmaking or Moises' scoring as opposed to Reid's insignificant play.
There's an answer to this and it's that they have to get Bonfiglio off the damn IR and START her at the 2 if they insist on playing GG at the 1. At least those 2 combined with both Gillom and Harrison on the floor give you a SMARTER team. Of course if Williams decides she wants to keep dribbling the ball you could move her to the 2 <cough>

cbibat · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

Williams would be ok dribbling if she just stopped putting her foot where the ball was going to bounce

caune · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

And if she'd take off those oven mitts

MB, that one was for you:twisted: :wink: :wink:

gia · Guest

cbibat wrote: Williams would be ok dribbling if she just stopped putting her foot where the ball was going to bounce

That was priceless

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

:lol: Oh she cooks huh?? :wink: :lol: How bout Granma behind the back dribble other night... :shock: :shock: :D :wink:

mb · Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:18 pm Post subject:

We are trying to lure Fallon back to improve the SG position?
Maybe we should play our acting PG's at SG.

If she doesn't return, how about this:

Quote: We interrupt this post for an important announcement: Hannah this is posted in jest...a joke...a backhanded compliment to Grama's behind the back dribbling.

Gillom at the SG!! Gillom at the two!!

She brings the ball upcourt once in a while anyway. She hits the crucial 3 pointers. The line-up would be:

PG: Grubin, SG: Gillom, SF: Harrison, PF: Christensen, C: Williams

Harrison guards the two on defense, with Jen, Kayte, and Adrain defending the post players.

Okay maybe I'm just being twisted after a long day at the office.

Still looking forward to reports from the open practice. The afternoon practice was to include scrimmaging a group of men. Hope all went well.

Go Mercury!!!

gia · Guest

Funny how we always consider Hannah's feelings when making Gillom comments yet Hannah has never posted here - at least not as Hannah!

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

any locals go to open practice? any interesting info? 8) :)

gia · Guest

Heard that there was nothing too special. GG did not practice. Veal played on the first team. Oksana looked good. Sharp had them working on a new play. Other than that there were a gazillion kids there for camp day and it was somewhat unorganized.

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

Quote: Veal played on the first team

:shock: :shock: :D :D

Vealy first team + new play = Road Win :?: :idea: :idea:

thanks for the info gia :wink:

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Ooo Veal on the first team... does this mean she'll get 10 minutes in the next game?

Mat H · Guest Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 168 Location: Glendale AZ

Here is what I got from the open practice:

1. Timms worked with the guards on their defence such as forcing the guards toward the baseline.

2. Coach E. Cooper worked with the posts. The new girl, (Zacha... I'm not even going to try) has alot of work to do! Cooper had to show her 4 times how to box out and she still didn't get it. Not to say shes slow :roll:

3. Gillom was Gillom.

4. Reid got the crowd into the practice whens she made a half-court shot.

5. Cooper also worked on bumping the posts. He made the ladies do lay-ups while he shoved them mid-air with a large punching pad. A needed drill for Williams and Christianson.
That was it. Alot of defencive work also.

caune · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

I went to the has beens basketball camp last night. Timmsy mentioned the teams scrimmage, saying they went into overtime with the guys but then lost by nine. She said if they played their games the way they had scrimmaged, they would never loose another game! hmmm was Veal playing the starting PG role????

I do know Vealy got quite a physical work out during practice cause she hadsome mean bruises on her arms!

I do recommend if you all have $50.00 and time next tuesday evening you go to the next Has Beens basketball camp! It was fun, great exercise, and you get a t-shirt, WNBA ball and 2 tickets to the merc vs indiana game. and lots of timmsys wit!

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:34 am Post subject:

"they went into overtime with the guys but then lost by nine."

Sounds like the dress rehearsal for a typical game this season
:(

Encouraging to hear there's some bruises being copped anyway.
Fight this season out gals!

gia · Guest

I can't imagine someone who's been playing professionally doesn't understand boxing out. It's a basic basketball skill. Maybe she just wasn't boxing out the way he wanted her to. I heard she has a sweet outside shot and isn't a bad player as most are making her out to be.

Wonder if it even matters..........imagine she'll be on IR before the next time we see the Merc at home. Hoping so anyway because we NEED Bonfiglio in the lineup :evil:

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Boxing out WNBA style is quite different from boxing out European style...

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Hey, Tuvic isn't a bad player either. She's just been a heckuva lot more effective so far in her career playing European ball than American ball. Same story with Oksana. If she was as effective a player here as she is over there, she would have been a starter for the Shock instead of being the last player on the bench. O.Z. is only 22 though, I think, so she's still got time to make the adjustment.

And yes, she does have a nice outside shot, when she gets the green light to use it. The problem, of course, is that you can't be stroking threes from outside and be in the paint chasing down rebounds at the same time, and I have a feeling from the way she's talked in the past about how she sees her role (and this observation about boxing out just now) that she's focused much more on her perimeter game over the years than on battling for boards, like so many other Euros. Remember the "Margo Dydek at shooting guard" experiment a couple of years ago?