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gia · Guest

What do they need, what do they give up to get it?

The Mercury need:
-perimeter shooters - do we have an outside game?
-inside presence that can contest shots, hang onto the ball, AND put it IN the basket
-a true point guard that they trust
-experienced players - Gillom, Harrison, Grubin aren't enough

Tradable players
-Bonfiglio - :( Would HATE to see her go
-Tuvic - a bust thus far
-Saunders - a project with potential for way down the road
-Reid - experience and might have the best marketable skills
-Moises - speed but erratic and better as a 2 guard
-Veal - :( they should be working her into the lineup, but looks like they're elbowing her out

Let the shopping begin

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Here's a question to think about:

If there is a deal available for someone who could step right in and make an immediate impact for this team at point or center, like on the level of 10-12 points and 6-8 rebounds or assists per game, do you consider trading Maria's rights in order to get that player? Knowing there's a risk she might never fully recover from pregnancy, or might suddenly decide to stay in Europe for good one fine year, but also knowing that if she does come back, and at full strength, she could end up haunting you?

cbibat · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

isn't next Monday the trading deadline? didn't Sulka say we would know by the end of the week if we have playoff hopes? With this in mind, how would we trade.....

Even if we make it to the playoffs I think there is little chance of getting past the 1st round. Because of this, I would not like to see the Merc trade the future - ie, Maria's rights,Veal, maybe Saunders...... teams that would make a trade now are not going to give up starters, they're going to be looking for strong support players. Maybe we could get a better draft position, but general consensus is that next years draft won't be 'that good'. If we have the foundation for the team next year in Maria, Jen, Lisa, Grubin, Veal, Moises, Kayte, Williams (?) we would have a team that has generally played together before, which is a rarity in our case. Imagine management will stay close to the 'Maria situation' so they'll know probabilites for her playing next year before the draft. Veal needs to be given a chance to prove herself, as a maturing stable point guard, as a point that can keep up with the players in the league, that she's not slow - I don't even care about Veal's shooting right now, they need court leadership. If you look at other point's in the league they are not relied upon to be heavy scorers. Get Veal some shooters to pass to and lets see if she can lead. Grubin and Moises need to play their natural positions. I'd love to see Bonfilgio play more, but after the season she's had do you think she'll come back next year?

I'm not sure I'd trade for this season or trade away our youth..... let the chips fall as they may for this year. this may be heresy, but maybe it would be best to not make the playoffs. Maybe the rest of the season (if we knock ourselves out by weekend) should be experiment time - give the 'youth' a real chance to prove themselves

Mat H · Guest Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 168 Location: Glendale AZ

I say keep Jen and Maria, Go fishing with the rest of em and lets see what we catch! Something and someone has to go. Hopefully next season Linda Sharp :cry: Someone please get me a tissue. *Sniff*

skew11 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 372

Quote: Go fishing with the rest of em and lets see what we catch!

:lol: :shock: like that ...nice guess we will know by Monday what "keepers' we brought in the boat.... any trade rumors out there :?: :?:

capsman · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 31

i say we trade the coaching staff!!

gia · Guest

I have a feeling Sharp is only here for the rest of this season and it's back to square one on that front for 2003.

In the meantime, as far as Veal goes, I say play her or trade her. There is a team out there that needs her. Maybe Minnesota so she can play with Harrower. We need a Byears, Burris type player down low. For the most part, our post players are sissies. The only one I see that fits that bill in Minn is Tamika Williams - 6"2 205lbs but she's averaging 34 min per game so I would think that's out of the question.

They'd never give up Maria's rights. And I'm not going to judge our new Russian based on stats and never actually seeing her play. Sometimes people just don't fit in with a team's plans and are only there for insurance, and that might have been the case with her. Same with Tausha Mills.....she just might not fit in with Washington's plans. They already have Holdsclaw, Page, Bullet, and now Ashia Jones.......with those players there's really no room for minutes.

Ohio Gaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 65 Location: Salem, OH

Our shooting guards have been in a slump:

Gordana Grubin 19 19 29.9 .386 .316 .734 .50 2.10 2.60 4.2 1.47 .11 2.21 2.20 10.4
Adriana Moises Pinto 19 4 18.8 .351 .318 .743 .30 1.40 1.70 2.2 1.16 .05 2.11 1.70 5.6

Perhaps GG is tired, with too many minutes & too much time out of her natural position.

Perhaps today's game begins a new trend:

GORDANA GRUBIN G 32 8-15 0-2 5-6 2 4 6 5 4 2 4 0 21
Adriana Moises 6 1-1 0-0 0-0 0 1 1 2 1 0 2 0 2

Still, the team was only 0-6 from three point range today (0.318 for season, but thanks, Grandmama, for your 0.407! :D )

For the future, we need to trade for a dominant stopper at C (scoring is optional), IF Maria does not return, some perimeter players that can shoot, and a point guard that can run the offense. Assuming Maria returns at C, Veal gets some playing time and proves herself at PG, a more experienced Kayte is back at PF (with Grandmama backing up?), Lisa back at SF, our trading strategy would seem best directed towards a firecracker of a SG. Perhaps a package deal including Grubin & Moises for a SG, and some of the others for backup PG and post. Is the talent pool really so poor in next year's draft? :? :o

My thoughts, FWIW. I am going to post this now, and see what wiser heads have posted in this interesting thread. :wink:

Thank you, gia, for this nice forum.
Bob
UCSB '61

Vladimir Taltos · Guest Joined: 15 Jun 2002 Posts: 72

Better suggestion..Sharp?

OFF WITH HER HEAD!

VT

Mat H · Guest Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 168 Location: Glendale AZ

In a realitly check, Kayte won't start over Jen as long as Jen is still breathing. Kayte would have a lot to prove in little time to get that nod. If anything, Kayte should learn as much as possible from the savvy vet. I'm not sure if anyone remembers John Shumeate who used to do Mercury games on t.v, but I wld love to see him on the Mercury bench. That man sees the little things and knows his basketball :!:

Dunkin' Dan · Posted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:59 pm Post subject:

Some good posts here.

I think it's important to *not* trade with this season in mind, at the moment.
We are not at LA or Houston's level right now, and even the most miraculous of Seth's moves could not change that at the moment, so let's not kid ourselves.

There is no point sacrificing the future for the sake of scraping into 4th place & getting embarrassed in LA

So with that in mind, some important judgements need to be made, particularly concerning the young brigade.
I'm all for some "fishing" btw.

Veal, Moises, Saunders, Bonfiglio: All are young, somewhat erratic, but have potential. I don't think we can afford to keep them all. We need some stability in the backcourt in addition to Grubin. Someone will have to make a hard decision about which of these players will make room for her.
(Whoever remains has to then be given some serious opportunity!)

Too often over history the Merc have tried new players but not actually given them a fair opportunity to play, and then we've instead opted for the "stable but average" player instead, resulting in mediocrity.

Anyway, after all that rabbitting on... priorities as I see it:
1. Re-think the entire backcourt
2. Make a decision about Maria. Someone has to take a chance. If we decide she's returning, then our centre spot is fine.
3. Give Brandy Reed another chance. We could really use her.
4. After careful consideration, decide that the above remark was just written to scare you all, so pay it no mind at all
5. Lose all remaining games & play that lottery :wink:

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Mills is too slow and too stiff to play at this level--for being a second overall pick in 2000 (which usually carries the implication that you fit into a team's plans), she had trouble that year taking minutes away from Keisha Anderson and Heather Owen, let alone Page and Bullett. And she had already played 1+ seasons in the ABL, so it wasn't like she was coming in totally raw either.

As I said, I hope I'm wrong about Oksana and that she does blossom here, but I'm not holding my breath. But hey, if she scores 20 and flattens Lisa Leslie with a couple of timely elbows in the next Sparks game, I'll be an instant convert! :D

And I agree--I don't see them keeping Sharp unless there is some kind of a miraculous turnaround. The team has a 2-8 record since she took over, and those 8 losses have been by an average of 13 ppg. Scoring is down, defense is down, and turnovers are up under her watch. That's not going to get an interim coach recommended for permanent duty.

SportsFan48 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1133

I say we if we make a trade, then whomever we get needs to have the following capabilities:

1.) Get all the calls in her favor
2.) Make the all-star team each year regardless of whether there is a more deserving player
3.) Be a "league" favorite!
4.) Get lots of national TV exposure, especially for away games.

Regardless of skill, if she has those qualities, we will make the playoffs.

Do I sound bitter??

Seriously, I hope we don't make a trade. A trade deadline doesn't mean we have to "meet" it. I think we have a good nucleus and we need to give this group a chance to continue to work together. This is a team that has been searching for an identity all season. Another change is going to keep us in that mode. If you look at the teams that are on top, they have decided who their "starting" players are and who is coming in as reserves and for how long. How many changes have we seen in our starting lineup? For those who are generally used as reserves, how many have had consistent minutes and consistent rotations? Those things are just as critical as a good floor general.

I know that the game will sometimes dictate when substitutions will be made. However, I think that the more consistent you are helps the players understand their roles better and helps with their game rhythm. And in the end makes the team stronger.

If management is considering a trade, I would hope that the following are untouchable:

Maria & Jennifer - should be a given -
Lisa - not only would the Mercury lose a great defender, a potentially explosive offensive player, but they would lose half the fans that are still around.
GG - Grubin has proven her worth on the perimeter.
Veal - she is our future. Actually, she could be our present, if given the chance.
Kayte - we don't want to have to play against her.
Bonfiglio - I don't think we have seen how good she can be. I would like to see a "healthy" Bonofiglio.
Tuvic - she plays well with Maria and I think Maria plays better with her.
Williams - Adrian worked hard in the off season and has improved her game. That alone gives her the respect to stay. Her inconsistency hides the good stuff she does.
Saunders - She is our potential project. Every team needs a potential project.
Reid - we need to keep her because we traded Bridget & a #9 pick for her and if we gave her up now if would look like a bad trade.
Moises - we couldn't get anyone better for her.
Oksana - we need someone to cut and replace with our draft pick.
mb - even though he may be the unofficial assistant GM, what would we do without him????

gia · Guest

Lisa was rumored to be going to Orlando when the Cooper fiasco happened and there was lots of chatter about trading her before the season in a package to get a superstar type player. I really don't think she's untouchable after this season is over.

I think the only one who is untouchable is Gillom......unless she asks for a trade to a winning team to get that ring she DESERVES.

cbibat · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 232

after this season, actually the last few, I wonder how many players will be the ones asking for trades?

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

So Sportsfan, are you implying the whole team is untouchable?

My problem WITH the current situation is that we're not in a position to get a high draft pick and we look screwed anyways.

EDIT: Grammatical error

gia · Guest

If Bonfiglio gives you scoring potential AND smarts, why on earth do you IR her to make room for Oksana, and then play Tuvic only 1 min. Now you have 3 centers and you're minus one guard. In the meantime you're playing Grubin out of position at the 1 and Reid out of position at the 2.

Seems like the smarter move would have been to put Tuvic on IR and see what Oksana gives you.

SportsFan48 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1133

I don't think the whole team is untouchable, I was only trying to support my opinion that we shouldn't trade this season. (Plus it was late and I was running on fumes.) If we have to make a trade, I would hope that Maria, Jen, Lisa, and GG are considered untouchable. However, there have been some interesting comments on what we might be able to do with Maria vs what she might do to us if we did trade her.

When I saw the news about our player transactions I wasn't surprised about putting Bonofiglio on IR. I don't know if having injections in your knee is any big deal, but 5 in a short span seems excessive to me. I would think, with the Mercury track record with guards and knee injuries, they may be doing some preventative maintenance on Susanna.

My thought on bringing Oksana here over Barnes was that one may have a better contract with the league and the league may have pushed the issue. I could be way out in left field here, but statistically I don't see where you are losing or gaining with that move (unless Barnes really was injured - then it makes more sense). Is Oksana a better player or potentially a better player? I don't really know much about either one. It may be a move to help Maria keep her promise to return next season too (to have another friend and countrywoman here).

mb · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:22 am Post subject:

As unofficial assistant GM, I must step in.

Depending on the outcome of the Seattle and Portland games, the playoff picture will be clear. If we don't win both of these games, the playoffs are a long shot and we need to develop the bench. Actually, we need to utilize the bench more at present.

The trade deadline does not necessitate a trade.

Stepanova is a keeper. She will be back. She will have a breakout season. Those doubts which make some of you lean toward trading her will keep teams from offering much for her.

Players need minutes and confidence shown in them to produce. Both Veal and Tuvic can produce. Tuvic works well with Maria.

The second team consistently beats the first team in practice.

Gillom deserves to retire a Mercury player (after next season). Only if she wants to go to a contender does she move.

Harrison's departure would alienate half the few remaining fans, yet she is marketable and tradable if the return is substantial.

Saunders has tremendous upside yet may be marketable.

Grubin is a keeper and is our SG. No offense to Bridget Pettis or Tracy Reid, but they were thrown ins regarding the trade. The trade essentially was Grubin for #8.

Reid is expendable if Harrison remains. She is out of position at SG and Harrison warrants big minutes at SF.

Bonfiglio is more valuable to us than to other teams in the league. She is a good back up to Grubin at SG.

Veal is our future. She was drafted to be a starter and needs more minutes.

Christensen was a steal, will become even better, and we're keeping her.

With Veal reclaiming PG, Grubin moving to SG, and Maria back at C, our need is for a banger at PF. Suzy Batkovich???

Perhaps packaging Reid and Saunders is an option.

Stockpiling picks for 2004 is not a bad idea either as it would be nice to get a Turasi or Powell.

Just an idea, Harrison and ??? for Katie Smith?

Carrie Graf, who should have previously been our head coach; should be offered the job next season. Hope she accepts.

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

Maybe we should wave Moises at teams. She's a bit streaky but would be excellent bench scoring and I'm sure other teams would appreciate her more than Sharp is doing. Also this will allow Vealy to get the lion's share of minutes next year.

mb · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:39 am Post subject:

More:

Bonfiglio has a legitimate (knee?) injury and that is why she went on IR.

Forgot to mention Moises and Williams.

Moises while quick and able to score, dribbles into trouble, turns the ball over and has a poor FG% for as often as she shoots. She is a SG, not a PG; and her height makes her a defensive liability there. Definately expendable for the right return.

Williams has improved her game, rebounds well, and shows flashes of offensive and defensive brilliance. If she stays, she needs to be more aggressive. Creatin or steroids are possibilities. Tradable, perhaps in a package, for a big bruising, banging PF.

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

I really think we should go for Alisa Burras. She's big and finishes well. Problem is that Portland really need her as well as their other posts are prissy as well.

gia · Guest

Portland also has Jenny Mowe. 6'5 236 - not sure why she's not getting playing time up there. Is she hurt or does she just suck? ;)

mb · Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:09 am Post subject:

Burras would be a great p/u. Who do we offer/ what would they take???

GirlGaucho · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 12 Location: UCSB

gia, I saw Jenny Mowe play here a few years ago and was not at all impressed with her, and actually wonder how she made it into the league. I guess it's just because she's big. BTW, Kayte had 19 points and 11 boards in that game (as a soph) :)

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Folkl is a very good rebounder that wouldn't be bad to have, although her scoring at this level has been a bit lacking. I doubt Portland would trade either her or Burras though. Considering that their playoff run is being made by a roster patched together with string and velcro, Hargrove isn't going to risk trading any of her few consistently productive players unless we gave up somebody of greater value like Harrison or Gillom in return. More likely Harrison, since she played in Portland in the ABL and would address their need at wing, but trading her for ANYBODY on Portland's roster other than maybe Figgs (who is conversely their one absolutely untradeable player) would make no sense for us. Trading Gillom for a younger post like Burras and either a second player or a draft pick would make more sense for us, at least on paper, and if this was a video game I would seriously consider it. But in real life, no matter how much sense a deal makes, trading Gillom is just like trading Harrison. It carries huge risks of angering fans and destroying whatever spirit is left in the locker room. Plus I would definitely NOT want to be the player(s) that she was traded for, knowing that said player(s) would be seen as an "imposter" in some quarters.

GG is right about Mowe. Kayte ran circles around her in that game at UCSB; the most memorable thing Mowe did that game was flip off the crowd after they got on her for roughing up one of our other posts. :lol: She's basically a poor woman's Kara Wolters. If you want that type of "big girl" center, you might as well inquire with Sacramento about getting the genuine article--she's only playing about 6 minutes a game for them this year.

caune · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1562 Location: Phoenix

We still need what we have always needed, a mean rebounding post player, and a guard who can shoot more then 35% consistently. Are they out there? hmmm both Wendy Palmer and Betty Lennox were traded, so there are quality players available, but who wants what we have?

My keepers
Lisa
Jenn
Veal
GG
Maria
(they'd make a nice starting line up, no?)

That's it in my book, the rest are sooo available, for the right price, of course!

Dream players for Merc
Tasha Beyers
Tamika Williams
Janeth Arcain
Tamika Dixon
Svet Abrosimova
feel free to add toDream too :wink:

Carol Fegenbush · Guest Joined: 21 Jun 2002 Posts: 13 Location: California

Jenny Mowe is a big bruiser.... USCB played Oregon and Kayte was injured i think, if not i think it was that game she was injured in.. But Mowe fouled out.... :wink: She is really slow, they had to wait for her to get down on the court.... No way...

eaction83 · Guest Joined: 14 Jun 2002 Posts: 130 Location: Fremont, CA

Nope. Kayte was injured against Vanderbilt on 1/25, about five or six weeks after the Oregon game. Mowe finished with 4 fouls in that game, but she should have fouled out on the play where she threw Kristi Rohr on the ground and somehow *drew* a foul out of it instead. I still to this day don't understand how the refs justified that call.

gia · Guest

So what you're saying is she's a thug. ;) We need a thug. This nicey nice weak ass play has got to go.

The Santa Barbarian · Guest Joined: 08 Jul 2002 Posts: 35

No. She is NOT mentally tough. She would fit in quite well with the present Merc road team. She got a lot of undeserved hype at OU. You really don't want her.

Keegan · Guest Joined: 13 Jun 2002 Posts: 977

NO MOWE.

Maybe we should wait for Suzy.

gia · Guest

Ok, no Mowe. I'm grasping at straws.

I'm off to San Francisco in the morning until Monday. I expect to see lots of messages here about the great Mercury wins vs Seattle and Portland :!: :!: :!:

SportsFan48 · Guest Joined: 12 Jun 2002 Posts: 1133

FYI - Mowe was place on IR when Stiles was activated.

mb, well said. You just might have the makings for a GM sometime in the future.

Just a side note: I made the mistake of responding on the AZcentral board to a thread on Lisa. That board is starting to go the way of last year with tackless idiots who want to discuss anatomy more than basketball. Thank you, Gia for creating this board and thanks to those who post here for your intelligent and tasteful banter.